Pathalogical Narcassism (Control freak)and the damage it causes to family members

eternal peter pan

Member
Mixed Farmer
everyone who has a buisness or in control of something has to have a level of narcassisum to survive .you would need to have a confidance to tell others what to do .Pathalogical narcassisum as i understand it involves useing manipulation to get what they want -power -money-guilt-blackmail -threats etc and dont have the capacity to understand what theimpact on the other party is ..This is what im trying to find out if its as prelevent as i think it is .Reading replies on forums and posts relateing usually to succesion ,there appears to be a large amout of situations where people are being manipulated or controlled in ways that arnt normal as found in normal relationships ...Propritory estople cases that have come about due to no other recorse than to go through courts in order to escape the controller .Very hard to understand when looking at the vast amount of 'normal' situations where there are disagreements that can becompramised and sorted ....persons.Pathalogical narcassistic traits wont allow any discontent or imput from anyone else ,no matter if they are correct .This is probably the hardest part of dealing with them,as it usually ends with the other person being forced to leave.....these could be brothers ,sisters ,mothers ,fathers ,uncles,aunts or,your parents new spouses that come in and take over
 

ARW

Member
Location
Yorkshire
everyone who has a buisness or in control of something has to have a level of narcassisum to survive .you would need to have a confidance to tell others what to do .Pathalogical narcassisum as i understand it involves useing manipulation to get what they want -power -money-guilt-blackmail -threats etc and dont have the capacity to understand what theimpact on the other party is ..This is what im trying to find out if its as prelevent as i think it is .Reading replies on forums and posts relateing usually to succesion ,there appears to be a large amout of situations where people are being manipulated or controlled in ways that arnt normal as found in normal relationships ...Propritory estople cases that have come about due to no other recorse than to go through courts in order to escape the controller .Very hard to understand when looking at the vast amount of 'normal' situations where there are disagreements that can becompramised and sorted ....persons.Pathalogical narcassistic traits wont allow any discontent or imput from anyone else ,no matter if they are correct .This is probably the hardest part of dealing with them,as it usually ends with the other person being forced to leave.....these could be brothers ,sisters ,mothers ,fathers ,uncles,aunts or,your parents new spouses that come in and take over
One thing I learnt running a business is that I had to learn to be more selfish
 
Location
Wales
One thing I learnt running a business is that I had to learn to be more selfish
you do in a way, but as with everything, there is always a line between being selfish to an extent and being selfish to prevent others from having a chance or by not listening to anyone else and taking their opinions into consideration. The difficulty in family businesses is that you know each other too well and that can cause issues in that you don't treat each other with the respect you would treat those who are employed by you, who are not related etc. The whole point of a family business is to grow and work with each other and take on others' ideas. The idea of being completely selfish, in that there's nothing wrong with looking out for the business to the best of your ability and to what you think it needs, but you also have to try to balance that with listening to others' ideas, if it is to grow it can't just grow from one person's vision. People need to feel involved and wanted/needed and not permanently dragged this way and that with no say.
 

DrWazzock

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
The thing is who is controlling who?
Let’s say person A asks for something from person B then cries when they can’t have it? So person B gets accused of being controlling by not initially letting person A have exactly what they want. But person A is controlling person B by emotional pressure.
Don’t we all try to control other people to some extent? Don’t we all try to coerce other people?
If it’s done for a truly abusive reason then it’s wrong, but in my view controlling or coercing is fairly normal really. Salespeople try it. It happens as normal part of bargaining relationships. Part of the experience of life is to be able to detect it and resist it if you don’t like the direction people are trying to move you.
 

DrWazzock

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
Family partnerships are difficult things. Are there any that are truly democratic? Would they get very far if they were?
Often an autocratic partner does tend to have it their way but in the past I’ve often thought the partnership would collapse commercially if that old partner hadn’t been “in charge”. They were maybe personally unpopular amongst the other partners but had the balls and dourness to safely steer the ship through the rocks.
 

BRB John

Member
BASIS
Location
Aberdeenshire
The thing is who is controlling who?
Let’s say person A asks for something from person B then cries when they can’t have it? So person B gets accused of being controlling by not initially letting person A have exactly what they want. But person A is controlling person B by emotional pressure.
Don’t we all try to control other people to some extent? Don’t we all try to coerce other people?
If it’s done for a truly abusive reason then it’s wrong, but in my view controlling or coercing is fairly normal really. Salespeople try it. It happens as normal part of bargaining relationships. Part of the experience of life is to be able to detect it and resist it if you don’t like the direction people are trying to move you.
Just like everything in life it is a infinity range. Some people aren't controlling at all and some will murder you to ensure their control.
Where exactly the line between acceptable control is again completely individual.
But generally as a rule if someone in your life is toxic to you then cut them out.
Tolerating a toxic family member for the farm sake is not worth it.
It is better to be free and work as a farm worker than be a slave to a dictator.

Plus the flood of ex-family farms on the market might help reduce the price for the rest of us 😜
 

DrWazzock

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
But a large part of the problem, is that these people dont think they have a problem ....Its everyone else who has the problem .So wont seek treatment or want treatment or have it forced on them .As most advisers advise ,is to get as far away as possible ..Not easy if you are trapped in a buisiness relationship with them
Nobody is actually trapped in a business relationship in a farming partnership. And in fact those doing the leaving have more potential to sink the ship than anybody who thinks they are in charge. So it could be argued those who exhibit the controlling behaviour are the dissenters who threaten to leave the business because they disagree with the direction but won’t take responsibility or the work that comes with steering the business.
 

DrWazzock

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
Just like everything in life it is a infinity range. Some people aren't controlling at all and some will murder you to ensure their control.
Where exactly the line between acceptable control is again completely individual.
But generally as a rule if someone in your life is toxic to you then cut them out.
Tolerating a toxic family member for the farm sake is not worth it.
It is better to be free and work as a farm worker than be a slave to a dictator.

Plus the flood of ex-family farms on the market might help reduce the price for the rest of us 😜
We don’t have a problem as far as I’m aware in our farming partnership. My comments are based on what I have seen of previous generations. We have tried to learn from that.
Divided we fall. United we stand. I actually wouldn’t want to work as a sole trader. Partnerships can work but empathy is needed and everybody must accept they aren’t going to have everything their own way.
 

honeyend

Member
My FIL had a terrible childhood, I feel sorry for the child he was, but he had terrible rages and controlled everything he could. My MIL wanted a new cooker, she cooked a hot meal every day and baked, that was 'too much money', but he bought himself a new camera, and spent a fortune of film when you had to pay to have it developed, most of which ended up in the bin. Its the only time I ever heard her complain, and I thought his children should have given him a talking to, or bought her the cooker. My dad would have got a mouth full from me.
As an outsider it was interesting to see how someone could control a family, while at the same time seeming perfectly reasonable, as no one wanted a scene, and wanted to appear nice. I come from a family that argue a lot, its a family sport, so you can imagine I was definitely seen as an outsider, as I would say exactly as I saw it.
I do not think he set out to be like that, its just no one had the consistency to confront his behaviour, he had the money and perceived power, and then there is the threat that it was making him ill. You have to treat someone like that has a job, store up your energy, think this is going to be rough, but I have my objectives, and I will chip away at it, picking away at the ones that are achievable.
My FIL seemed to think my MIL wouldn't cope after he died, he could not see that she actually did all the work, when he died she spent money on her self and had a lovely life. She was very smart, and I always wonder what she could have done if she had just confronted him more, even though there would have been a lot more rows or she would have left him.
I have worked with a bully, and they are often not as smart as they think, their ideas are often fixed, their mind closed to the possibility that someone else may have a better idea or know more. Their fear is being proved wrong, so they will fight to make everyone else look bad, every perceived error in inflated so people lose confidence in their abilities and knowledge. If you have a game plan, it's sometimes possible to make their predictable behaviour work for you, put long term you have to pick your battles and fight them to win.
 

BRB John

Member
BASIS
Location
Aberdeenshire
At 53 I couldn’t care less TBH. If the other partners wished it, I’d happily leave the partnership and leave my shares in so they could carry on. I wouldn’t mind trying something else while I still can.
Something else? What like moving to Canada or getting a job in Tesco? 😉

I'm happy enough with our partnership as well but I'm well aware of several family farms that are a ticking time bomb with multiple clashing personalities to say the least...

I'd like to think once I'm your age I'm still game enough to try something else...😉
 

BRB John

Member
BASIS
Location
Aberdeenshire
My FIL had a terrible childhood, I feel sorry for the child he was, but he had terrible rages and controlled everything he could. My MIL wanted a new cooker, she cooked a hot meal every day and baked, that was 'too much money', but he bought himself a new camera, and spent a fortune of film when you had to pay to have it developed, most of which ended up in the bin. Its the only time I ever heard her complain, and I thought his children should have given him a talking to, or bought her the cooker. My dad would have got a mouth full from me.
As an outsider it was interesting to see how someone could control a family, while at the same time seeming perfectly reasonable, as no one wanted a scene, and wanted to appear nice. I come from a family that argue a lot, its a family sport, so you can imagine I was definitely seen as an outsider, as I would say exactly as I saw it.
I do not think he set out to be like that, its just no one had the consistency to confront his behaviour, he had the money and perceived power, and then there is the threat that it was making him ill. You have to treat someone like that has a job, store up your energy, think this is going to be rough, but I have my objectives, and I will chip away at it, picking away at the ones that are achievable.
My FIL seemed to think my MIL wouldn't cope after he died, he could not see that she actually did all the work, when he died she spent money on her self and had a lovely life. She was very smart, and I always wonder what she could have done if she had just confronted him more, even though there would have been a lot more rows or she would have left him.
I have worked with a bully, and they are often not as smart as they think, their ideas are often fixed, their mind closed to the possibility that someone else may have a better idea or know more. Their fear is being proved wrong, so they will fight to make everyone else look bad, every perceived error in inflated so people lose confidence in their abilities and knowledge. If you have a game plan, it's sometimes possible to make their predictable behaviour work for you, put long term you have to pick your battles and fight them to win.
My dyslexics brain is not liking your use "MIL" for mother in-law.....
 

DrWazzock

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
Something else? What like moving to Canada or getting a job in Tesco? 😉

I'm happy enough with our partnership as well but I'm well aware of several family farms that are a ticking time bomb with multiple clashing personalities to say the least...

I'd like to think once I'm your age I'm still game enough to try something else...😉
My grandfather moved down from Scotland when he was 55 and started again. I can feel it coming on. Late developers in our family. You only live once. There won’t be a rerun.
This family farming partnership is fine but I don’t think branching out would be a bad idea. My grandfather did that. He never left the home farm partnership in Scotland but he started up a satellite farm down South as a way of expanding and of getting out of one another’s hair at the time. Eventually the two businesses split but they still sent calves down south and hay and straw north. My great uncle ended up farming near Nairn. It was easier in those days to squire farms and put some distance between family members. Now that’s not so easy with the price of land but alternative businesses or bolt on businesses to the farm can give partners a bit of much needed personal autonomy and something to call their own project.
 
My grandfather moved down from Scotland when he was 55 and started again. I can feel it coming on. Late developers in our family. You only live once. There won’t be a rerun.
This family farming partnership is fine but I don’t think branching out would be a bad idea. My grandfather did that. He never left the home farm partnership in Scotland but he started up a satellite farm down South as a way of expanding and of getting out of one another’s hair at the time. Eventually the two businesses split but they still sent calves down south and hay and straw north. My great uncle ended up farming near Nairn. It was easier in those days to squire farms and put some distance between family members. Now that’s not so easy with the price of land but alternative businesses or bolt on businesses to the farm can give partners a bit of much needed personal autonomy and something to call their own project.

I've often read your posts and always been struck by the thought that you would be an excellent choice as someone to run a 'men's shed', although in your case, 'men's farm' would be more appropriate.
 

Thick Farmer

Member
Location
West Wales
everyone who has a buisness or in control of something has to have a level of narcassisum to survive .you would need to have a confidance to tell others what to do .Pathalogical narcassisum as i understand it involves useing manipulation to get what they want -power -money-guilt-blackmail -threats etc and dont have the capacity to understand what theimpact on the other party is ..This is what im trying to find out if its as prelevent as i think it is .Reading replies on forums and posts relateing usually to succesion ,there appears to be a large amout of situations where people are being manipulated or controlled in ways that arnt normal as found in normal relationships ...Propritory estople cases that have come about due to no other recorse than to go through courts in order to escape the controller .Very hard to understand when looking at the vast amount of 'normal' situations where there are disagreements that can becompramised and sorted ....persons.Pathalogical narcassistic traits wont allow any discontent or imput from anyone else ,no matter if they are correct .This is probably the hardest part of dealing with them,as it usually ends with the other person being forced to leave.....these could be brothers ,sisters ,mothers ,fathers ,uncles,aunts or,your parents new spouses that come in and take over
I’ve gone through most of this over the last two years. Didn’t know what was going on to start with but it escalated quickly.

Basically, we went from bullying of my wife and kids - to my parents getting divorced - to me starting an estoppel case - to a massive out of court settlement - to me now owning the place! Well, me and the bank!

It helped a lot when I stumbled upon an article about narcissism. It was like a handbook for dealing with the aggressors in this situation - it made their actions very predictable.
 

eternal peter pan

Member
Mixed Farmer
I’ve gone through most of this over the last two years. Didn’t know what was going on to start with but it escalated quickly.

Basically, we went from bullying of my wife and kids - to my parents getting divorced - to me starting an estoppel case - to a massive out of court settlement - to me now owning the place! Well, me and the bank!

It helped a lot when I stumbled upon an article about narcissism. It was like a handbook for dealing with the aggressors in this situation - it made their actions very predictable.
going through this situation myself and its happening on quite a number of family buisnesses......i became aware a couple of years ago when Donald trump would not admitt loseing and all the ramifications that could of happened because of a power crazed man .....i reasearched his personality disorder and came up with this .....i have this overwelming desire now to enlighten all the other people, out there going through the same toxic enviroments that we find ourselfs in ,and hopefully help others understand that this is ,and should be an (ism) like sexism,raceism etc .Being on the receiveing end of someone with this condition ,needs to become some form of protection with right to make it stop (dont know how to acheive this)As with you ,just becomeing aware its happening and why helps with dealing with it
 
Location
Wales
The thing is who is controlling who?
Let’s say person A asks for something from person B then cries when they can’t have it? So person B gets accused of being controlling by not initially letting person A have exactly what they want. But person A is controlling person B by emotional pressure.
Don’t we all try to control other people to some extent? Don’t we all try to coerce other people?
If it’s done for a truly abusive reason then it’s wrong, but in my view controlling or coercing is fairly normal really. Salespeople try it. It happens as normal part of bargaining relationships. Part of the experience of life is to be able to detect it and resist it if you don’t like the direction people are trying to move you.
Agree with you totally there. Whatever we do we can't really escape it. The best way to to recognise we are doing it and to come away, unfortunately sometimes we can't do that and others have to call us out. Not all control is bad, it's how it's used
 

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Man fined £300 for bonfire-related waste offences

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Written by William Kellett from Agriland

court-640x360.jpg
A man has pleaded guilty at Newtownards Magistrates’ Court to waste offences relating to a bonfire next to the electrical sub-station on the Circular Road in Newtownards, Co. Down.

Gareth Gill (51) of Abbot’s Walk, Newtownards pleaded guilty to two charges under the Waste and Contaminated Land (Northern Ireland) Order 1997, for which he was fined £150 each and ordered to pay a £15 offender’s levy

On June 25, 2018, PSNI officers went to Gill’s yard, where they found a large amount of waste consisting of scrap wood, pallets, carpet and underlay.

Discussion with Northern Ireland Environment Agency (NIEA) officers confirmed the site...
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