Paying farmers a lump sum to retire

[bobk]

They can;t afford me, they have no money. Did you not know the NT are on the poverty line? Anyway I should just about get the max£100000 with a BPS payment at current values off £46000, I hope?

Stick it in a SIPP , no tax .

 

[Still Farming]

Will the Dicks running the Welsh Assembly better the offer for their Farmers????

 

[gone up the hill]

Doesn't sound a lot of money when you compare it with what Bozo peeded away on crap PPE, compare it with the millions employed further down the line that farmers keep in business, the number of farmers are small fry compared with the employment they in some way or other provide!!!

Yep i agree.

They have wasted 37 billion yes 37 billion pounds on this track and trace nonsense alone and it does not even work!

And then they are trying to tell us with a straight face that they cannot justify giving the UK farming industry a couple of billion pounds a year to ensure the country has a secure food supply!

As for this pay off for older farmers, the GOV guidance states that you only have to rent out your farm for 5 years if you claim it and that can either be to new operators or current farmers looking to expand!

 

[steveR]

Exactly this. If I gave up my tenancy the agents have already said they want just one or two larger tenants, or the AD/ potato lads will have it. And then only on a short term FBT .
Or if I sell our owned bit, which young entrant will have the ability to borrow the £10k acre required.

Be better to incentivise more share farming type arrangements where a youngster could build up some capital

Yes, Yes, Yes.

I have been thinking that we need some schemes to encourage this for a while now. Whether the NZ model is what is wanted, but something to allow a new entrant to get a foothold, but doesn't scupper the Landowner from any tax perspective...

 

[Petebog]

UK government to pay older farmers to retire

Older farmers in England will be paid to retire under a government scheme.

www.bbc.co.uk

Average farmer could get 50k with the largest landowners getting 100k
Average farmer gets 21k per year

"Older farmers are often most resistant to new "green" methods, and Environment Secretary George Eustice wants them to move on"

"The government believes that younger farmers will be more open to new nature-friendly ideas and more inclined to seek income by diversifying into businesses such as camping or glamping."


Basically old farmer produce food for a living, whereas young farmers have to subsidise the food side of the business with a diversification. Why even bother with food production?

Discuss

And my 81 year old mother has to pay for her tv license

 

[Bald Rick]

If you are tempted you're only receiving a partial advance on what you would receive over the next three years, if you want an easy life sell the livestock & let the grass or sell the crops for three years & ease yourself out of serious farming slowly rather than a dead stop

Not even remotely tempted as son (33) runs the farm with interference from me

Plus I’m not in England

And, where there’s a scheme, there’s a schemer. Idea will get shredded by Joe Public and binned by our PM ... god bless her cotton (sustainably produced) socks

 

[Bald Rick]

Or pay your contractors bill, carting grass all that way today.

You been holidaying on the Sainted Isle?


PS we pay our contractor on a monthly basis ... 1/12 of total bill. Works well

 

[CopperBeech]

Most share farming deals favour the land owner a lot more than the new entrant ..........

 

[steveR]

They actually did that before iirc. There were farm amalgamation grants in the 1960's that, effectively, subsidised farmers to get out by paying others to expand. They actually wanted more food, not just cheaper food back then of course where 'the balance of payments' was mentioned in every second news item. Today we can apparently afford to import everything and nobody seems bothered with the balance of payments.

My old chap who was born in 1912 and because of Polio (and a keen intelligence) did not farm himself, but trained as an accountant and was quite unusual in that he was a specialist farming accountant in an era where this was very unusual. He saw the family farm through the late 20s and 30s and talked with me about the recession and it's effects on agriculture. This farm survived because of 4 working sons!!

He always said that a Government that failed to understand the importance of the balance of payments on the country, was not fit to be in power.... He will be spinning I reckon, at this mob of semi incompetents in Westminster.

 

[DRC]

You been holidaying on the Sainted Isle?


PS we pay our contractor on a monthly basis ... 1/12 of total bill. Works well

Yes. Holed up in Beaumaris in my friends holiday let. He’s just bought a boat yard in Caernarfon if your into boats.
happened to see the tractor with your name on it on our travels and clocked your farm.

 

[Tubbylew]

Is there actually any evidence that younger farmers are likely to be ‘greener’?

Most youngsters I know round here are going all out for production. It’s the old boys that take the scheme payments as they slide into retirement.

Most of the youngsters I know couldn't afford not to make every blade of grass count, i've been doing a bit of stewardship work for a fellow lately, and it's no mean feat bankrolling thousands of pounds of evironment schemes, with no promise of receiving reimbursment for some of the cost of the work until the rpa are good and ready, just where do they imagine young farmers, are likely to get the money to finance elms etc. I know that if dad were to take up their offer of money upfront, that, even he were to retire that the chap that takes over next, be it me, or anyone else, would be on a sticky wicket financially just stocking the place. He's been hinting rather a lot in the last 12 months or so that we could do with a new cattle shed, to replace the farmplan cubicles he put up in his twenties, whilst the figures may stack up for him with bps every year, they sure as sh!t don't stack up for me, in fact it barley stacks up to replace the roof on the decent buildings we have got.

 

[CopperBeech]

aren't the subs available to you just as much as anyone?

Why not borrow a couple of million -rates are on the floor you know- buy land and claim the subs, AND go on farming super efficiently?
Double bubble, and it'll all be paid off toot sweet.
Seriously, why not?

Alternatively, I understand there's a whack of 'slipper farmers' rich blow ins, and those who've parked money in land but don't want to farm it.
Rent off them and build an empire.

Without wanting to sound defeatist here is why not.

Ok so I could borrow a couple of million off the bank and buy a farm. But there are a couple of issues there, firstly to borrow a couple of million you need an asset to borrow against, something like an owned farm ..... also a coupe of million doesn’t buy you much of a farm these days sadly, the price has been pushed up and up and up, mostly be non farming money, you can’t our bid dyson, the Chinese, or most London hedge funds or big businesses. Neighbouring farm here just sold for 28 million, the tenant farm I had which was only 220 acres, got sold out from under me for 4 million.

And yes that’s precisely what I do, I’ve built up a buisness based on renting other folks ground, currently running a main breeding flock of 1200-1500 ewes, plus about 300-400 ewes in a flying flock sold as in lamb ewes, along with store lambs and tack ewes. It’s great in theory, but when you say that the rich folk don’t want to farm, that’s is totally incorrect, they may not want to do any work, but they do want to be seen as farmers as this is great for tax etc. So what we then have is land available in either one sided share farming deals or very short term grazing licences with zero security so that the owner can remain the active farmer, claim the subs and get the tax breaks.

 

[neilo]

Will the Dicks running the Welsh Assembly better the offer for their Farmers????

Why should they? It’s an ill thought out idea anyway, why duplicate it?.

 

[Still Farming]

Why should they? It’s an ill thought out idea anyway, why duplicate it?.

They would F it all up anyhow!

 

[egbert]

I don't know either of you, however I understand that Derick has a moderately successful business, with farming roots. If his path is different to his father's, then so what? Plenty of farmers sons don't carry on in the same old way but I see that as a strength. I am glad I didn't get into farming as a youth. I got out, made my way, and can now come back to it. My brother stayed, hated it and ended up in haulage. Being a farmer isn't right for everyone, and can be mentally destructive for some.

As they say, you need to walk a mile in someone's shoes, that way you will be a mile away and have his shoes.

think we're at cross purposes fellas


I was venting at a DEFRA minister, who seems to be dissing us oldies- including some of his close rellies- from a position of somewhat uninspired performance - so i'm told.

 

[egbert]

Without wanting to sound defeatist here is why not.

Ok so I could borrow a couple of million off the bank and buy a farm. But there are a couple of issues there, firstly to borrow a couple of million you need an asset to borrow against, something like an owned farm ..... also a coupe of million doesn’t buy you much of a farm these days sadly, the price has been pushed up and up and up, mostly be non farming money, you can’t our bid dyson, the Chinese, or most London hedge funds or big businesses. Neighbouring farm here just sold for 28 million, the tenant farm I had which was only 220 acres, got sold out from under me for 4 million.

And yes that’s precisely what I do, I’ve built up a buisness based on renting other folks ground, currently running a main breeding flock of 1200-1500 ewes, plus about 300-400 ewes in a flying flock sold as in lamb ewes, along with store lambs and tack ewes. It’s great in theory, but when you say that the rich folk don’t want to farm, that’s is totally incorrect, they may not want to do any work, but they do want to be seen as farmers as this is great for tax etc. So what we then have is land available in either one sided share farming deals or very short term grazing licences with zero security so that the owner can remain the active farmer, claim the subs and get the tax breaks.

sympathise about land prices.

and if you're not earning a serious living from chasing 1500 sheep, i would consider either a change of career, or taking your skills to a country where they're of more worth.

 

[BrianV]

Maybe if farmers got their act together & refused to take any sewage sludge at all food production just might move up the governments agenda, cannot for the life of me see why the NFU are not using this as a bargaining chip. Seems the NFU are far too easily persuaded to roll over & accept whatever crumbs to government decide to throw their way!
Could you imagine the panic in Whitehall if Blatter were to announce to the country that as from Monday morning for environmental sake they advise all UK farmers to absolutely refuse to take sewage onto the UK farms!

science-environment-57092135
News of pollution of rivers with sewage micro plastics alarming eco warriors, just imagine if it becomes public knowledge that we are plastering the countryside with the stuff, just the threat of a ban would have Boris wetting his pants. Imagine water boards stockpiling the stuff at water works near cities!

 

[Farma Parma]

The answer is -

"The government believes that younger farmers will be more open to new nature-friendly ideas and more inclined to seek income by diversifying into businesses such as camping or glamping. "

Cant do much other than Farming here rules of the Tenancy.
Gov are clueless just wait until the shelves are empty if we ever see such an event, nearly was when the Pandemic started.
Cant plant Trees neither
in fact there is allsorts if you dont own the farm you simply cant change things into something thats not farming.

 

[Farma Parma]

Another hair brained scheme,one how many young can buy a farm,how many young don’t want to work the hours,how many young won’t work for next to nothing,how many young will only drive the biggest flashy machinery.let’s face it the younger generation won’t put up with the life styles us oldies put up with.Farmimg is a lifestyle not a nine to five job.I find it an absolute insult to say I don’t care about the environment.For one I have never been on a plane and my carbon footprint is low,second my farm is full of wildlife because we have livestock and most important the wildlife wants to live here.They say it takes a generation to make a farm,and one to loose it only time will tell.Now before anyone tells me off yes there are some really keen young farmers most who will never get a chance to farm because they haven’t a farm to inherit or the money to buy one.So maybe Boris should ask why did council smallholdings get sold off.

How many early 20 somethings could buy a £100k tractor for a start...
No subs coz the old fart claimed it all & took the retirement gift.
Good luck at £150/ac min rent & more like £200 i'll bet with no SUB

 

[Farma Parma]

Think those figure are totally misleading, there is no way 60% of farm income is from payments, 60% of any profits more like. It's articles like this that make the public think we are a load of scroungers & should be put right at once by our NFU if they are not to busy!

its more like 30% of my farm income
Unfortunatly the LL takes most of it anyways so i might aswell never had it in the first place.
Snag is all the Input sharks have every last nut n bolt all built on a Subbed Farming Practise in the UK & as it slides away i hope it really hits some of them harder than us