PC Andrew Harper

thorpe

Member
For being dirty murdering barstewards. Do you think the screws are going protect them, or turn a blind eye? I can’t see anyone in the Home Office going out of their way to help them...
next big protest coming pikeys , lives matter! how much support will that get ? documentry while back made them look like angles it was on for a few weeks.
 

manhill

Member
The fact is the justice system is no longer fit for use. The prisons are basically at capacity and the whole process is hamstrung by human rights lawyers.

Take your average judge. I bet the bulk of them live in rather nice surroundings and never experience any actual crime really, it's not within their world view.

The prisons basically have no capacity or staff or funding, they are trying to get rid of prisoners, not retain them and add more.

And then you have the issue of human rights, it's near impossible to deport foreign criminals or prevent those with existing convictions from entering.

We need a collection of super prisons, life sentences that stick and mean it and a robust system to deport foreign nationals who have served their sentences with no right to ever enter the country again.

I do not advocate physical punishments or the death sentence whatsoever. I've always believed that the threat of prison is not a deterrent to crime, nor is it a punishment. Prison is merely a way of protecting society by segregating society from those who cannot follow the expected rules in society. Let the prison populace work for a living and earn money. I'm all for it.

Low level offenders should be put in orange overalls and made to work in chain gangs, picking litter and the like. Let the locals see their faces. No street cred from being forced to do that compared to getting an asbo.
Should contract out imprisonment to places like Belarus for the worst criminals. Doubt life would be a cake walk for them there.
 
Funny the press not researched the jury yet?
Illegal probably and totally indecent thing to do anyway.

Judge would have sentenced them to more if they were younger and weren't so fecking stupid. There has to be a balance because a judge will know if he did the maximum 24 years for them it would be more than likely be overruled later on. Its a bad job all round
 

DeeGee

Member
Location
North East Wales
I wonder if someone will put a contract on them inside?
God knows what goes on in these places: so many warped and incomprehensible values about what is considered ‘right and wrong’ that killing a police officer may even earn them a warm welcome inside.

I really have no idea how they will be treated in prison, but I do know that our justice system is, as always, an absolute joke and needs a complete overhaul if it is ever to be a real deterrent to the low life who have absolutely no fear of it.
 

forblue

Member
All this is because this country is being run behind the scenes by minority groups such as human rights, every time a new law is bought out some smart arse lawyer seems to get it twisted to line their pockets or get guilty people off, nothing will every change because those in power have not got the gut's to do anything, all they are interested is making certain they keep their jobs and get as much money as possible out of taxpayers..........
 

teslacoils

Member
Location
Lincolnshire
The system relies on the law abiding majority just quietly tutting at this dirt of thing. A moral objection to the whipping post etc despite popular approval - you cannot be seen to be against it for fear of being shamed.
 

Vizslaman

Member
Location
Hampshire
Can we really wonder that the police are not more proactive when it comes to rural crime, when the judiciary fail to support them when an incident like this occurs.
The judge could have handed down the maximum sentence which would at least have given Pc Andrew Harper's family some closure and shown the rest of the police forces that violence towards police officer will not be tolerated and those committing the crimes will feel the full weight of the law.
 

JP1

Moderator
Livestock Farmer
Can we really wonder that the police are not more proactive when it comes to rural crime, when the judiciary fail to support them when an incident like this occurs.
The judge could have handed down the maximum sentence which would at least have given Pc Andrew Harper's family some closure and shown the rest of the police forces that violence towards police officer will not be tolerated and those committing the crimes will feel the full weight of the law.
^^^ Post of the week right there
 

egbert

Member
I agree. Russia or Eastern Europe. Harsh systems and bloody cold, too. No escape from these places, either.
I;m thinking 'One day in the life of Ivan Denisovich'
(Solzhenitsyn's one 'easy reading' book, where the character is in one of Stalins Gulags, focused just about every waking minute on finding enough food/warmth to stay alive in the Siberian cold)

Anyway - not to detract from the OP- I've a better plan.
A reality TV show featuring the worst offenders in the country, where the viewers can phone in to vote on who should be doing the hemp fandango!
£1 a vote, hey presto.....a self funding prison service.

(and curiously enough in this case, killing a serving cop would be one of the offences highest on the list should the law ever change on capital punishment...these individuals would very possibly not see their next birthday under such circumstances...ne'er mind being out again by their early 30's )
 
I;m thinking 'One day in the life of Ivan Denisovich'
(Solzhenitsyn's one 'easy reading' book, where the character is in one of Stalins Gulags, focused just about every waking minute on finding enough food/warmth to stay alive in the Siberian cold)

Anyway - not to detract from the OP- I've a better plan.
A reality TV show featuring the worst offenders in the country, where the viewers can phone in to vote on who should be doing the hemp fandango!
£1 a vote, hey presto.....a self funding prison service.

(and curiously enough in this case, killing a serving cop would be one of the offences highest on the list should the law ever change on capital punishment...these individuals would very possibly not see their next birthday under such circumstances...ne'er mind being out again by their early 30's )
I wonder if the prison service could be self funding. You have the inmates as cheap labour. I wonder if they could be filmed as almost a 24/7 reality TV type deal.

I've said for a long time that prisoners who behave should be provided access to a rich suite of facilities, but they would need to work 45 hours per week and agree to randomised drug screening. I would allow family visits and the like but it would need to be highly regulated and in a safe environment. The way prisoners are kept at the moment surely has impacts on their mental health which in turn makes the more complex and costly to deal with.

Prison isn't about punishment in my view, being deprived of your liberty is enough in that respect, it's about keeping you away from society as a whole. If you can't follow the rules then you don't deserve to be in society at all.

I don't agree with capital punishment irrespective of how it is carried out.
 

egbert

Member
I wonder if the prison service could be self funding. You have the inmates as cheap labour. I wonder if they could be filmed as almost a 24/7 reality TV type deal.

I've said for a long time that prisoners who behave should be provided access to a rich suite of facilities, but they would need to work 45 hours per week and agree to randomised drug screening. I would allow family visits and the like but it would need to be highly regulated and in a safe environment. The way prisoners are kept at the moment surely has impacts on their mental health which in turn makes the more complex and costly to deal with.

Prison isn't about punishment in my view, being deprived of your liberty is enough in that respect, it's about keeping you away from society as a whole. If you can't follow the rules then you don't deserve to be in society at all.

I don't agree with capital punishment irrespective of how it is carried out.
I understand the reluctance to confront capital punishment, but equally, I've seen no justification whatsoever in keeping, for instance, Peter Sutcliffe alive.
 
Location
southwest
It's all down to "intent"

There's another thread on TFF about a trailer coming lose from a tractor and killing a member of the public. Does the lynch mob agree that the tractor driver should be tried for murder? The lack of intent to kill was the same as in this case.
 
It's all down to "intent"

There's another thread on TFF about a trailer coming lose from a tractor and killing a member of the public. Does the lynch mob agree that the tractor driver should be tried for murder? The lack of intent to kill was the same as in this case.
No, but to drag someone for a mile on a road, were they expecting him to get up and dust himself off at the end? They clearly knew or expected he would be seriously injured at the very least.
 

egbert

Member
It's all down to "intent"

There's another thread on TFF about a trailer coming lose from a tractor and killing a member of the public. Does the lynch mob agree that the tractor driver should be tried for murder? The lack of intent to kill was the same as in this case.
Really?
The tractor driver may be - and it's none of my concern- guilty of all kinds of ignorance and omission, which led to a fatality.
He seems to have been going about otherwise legitimate business, and his/someones corner cutting looks like it cost a 3rd party their life.
A moments bad timing, and an accident that maybe better state of repair could've avoided....and someone died.
He/they will very likely bear the punishment for that.
(a custodial sentence is almost a cert I'd guess)

The 3 young men in this case went out thieving, knowing full well that the old bill might get after them.
Indeed, it was a statistical certainly that they'd have a copper after them at some point.
And when one did, they almost certainly knowingly dragged him to his death.
When the rest of the old bill turned up, they and their extended network tried to wriggle out of responsibility - it appears that lawlessness at that horrific scale is ingrained in their culture.
The suggestion is that they're still to this day showing little or no remorse.

I'd say there's a world of difference.
 
I understand the reluctance to confront capital punishment, but equally, I've seen no justification whatsoever in keeping, for instance, Peter Sutcliffe alive.
There are lots of countries who have capital punishment. They still have large numbers of horrific crimes being committed, often at rates exceeding those in the UK. It is clear that even the threat of a death penalty is no deterrent to criminals worldwide. Why then bother to have the penalty since it deters no one and makes no member of society safer?

I understand the issue of cost, therefore the prison service should be reformed to be as cheap and safe as possible and to maintain the physical and mental well being of inmates so their cost to society is as low as practically possible. Prison is about neither punishment nor revenge. It's simply a way of removing from society those who can't follow the rules. It is nothing more or less.

Those who are incarcerated should be encouraged to work 45 hours per week to offset the cost of keeping them in the first place. They should be allowed to expand and improve and maintain their facilities, howsoever that is financed or performed is open to debate. Having large populations of people confined but with fudge all else to do all day but take drugs is never going to end well.
 

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New ELM scheme must be flexible and have farming at its heart, says NFU

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Written by John Swire

The new Environmental Land Management Scheme (ELMS) must be flexible and have farming at its heart, the NFU said today, as the government consultation draws to a close.

The scheme is due to be rolled out in 2024, replacing the existing environmental schemes currently available under the Common Agricultural Policy (CAP).

Tom Bradshaw
Tom Bradshaw

NFU Vice President Tom Bradshaw said: “The consultation on the new ELMS has given us a great opportunity to get a range of views from our...
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