Pedigree Lleyn or Fat Lambs? Texel X?

[KieronHollis]

I’ve got a small flock of 15 pedigree Lleyn ewes this year. 3rd time lambing my own. First year with 8 ewes and last year with 18. Should I stick to breeding with a pedigree Lleyn tup and keep my own ewe lambs or should I simply put a texel on them and sell every lamb I have.
pros of the texel is every lamb sells well fat or as breeding ewe lambs. And the bought in ewes can be bred straight away as yearlings.
Cons is you have to buy in sheep every year as replacements and never breed an improved flock?
Pros of the pure Lleyn is improving your flock and keeping your best ewe lambs as well as selling the odd ram and ewe lambs for slightly more than the texel X
Cons of the pure Lleyn is the ram lambs are harder to finish and end up selling as stores for less money? The breed society is mainly all MV aswell
Was wandering peoples opionions? Is it worth having less sheep and keeping my own ewe lambs and maybe a ram lamb to sell as yearling or is it better to simply have 1 texel tup, sell all lambs early and buy ewes as needed?

 

[Aspiring Peasants]

I don't keep Lleyns so I may be wrong, but I thought their main attraction was to have a self contained flock, breeding your own replacements and selecting for the traits you want. It doesn't seem sensible therefore to have a flying flock buying in Lleyns as replacements.

If you want to go down the buying in route, I would buy texel mules which will give a more valuable lamb when crossed with a Texel. With a relatively small flock this would increase your output, and be an easy system

 

[Castle Farm]

Keep with the Lleyn and breed your own replacements. My Tup lambs went off 3 weeks ago at £118. 50 @ 50Kg. I usually sell my ewe lambs for a bit more than that as breeding stock. I never have a problem finishing them on grass only, just keep the grass fresh and growing

 

[Ysgythan]

Make friends with your local Texel breeder and ask him if you can pick up his scraps for cull price. Put a Lleyn in for one cycle then sweep with the Texel. Cash the Texel in when prices are up. Repeat.

 

[neilo]

I would have thought you'd be on a hiding to nothing keeping your own replacements. Assuming you don't lamb the ewe lambs, you'll need to replace the ram every two years to prevent him going over daughters. Unless they are very high output sheep, you are going to struggle to justify a decent maternal ram to go over 15 ewes for 2 years, so either end up out of pocket, or breeding your replacements (& trying to sell) from a poor ram.

As above, do a deal with someone local and buy in your 3 replacements a year as Texel crosses, then put a decent terminal of your choice (or even one of @Ysgythan 's scraps) over them and sell all fat/store.

 

[KieronHollis]

Thanks for all the reply’s.
Perhaps buying a texel cheap as a cull tup or a poorer ram lamb off a pedigree breeder be best?
I could still keep my own ewe lambs for the next few years as they’ll be first cross texel X sheep from my lleyns and then starting buying after that or Cross back to a Lleyn and always keep my own ewe lambs? Would that be better or do you still think buying replacement is better than that?

 

[KieronHollis]

I would have thought you'd be on a hiding to nothing keeping your own replacements. Assuming you don't lamb the ewe lambs, you'll need to replace the ram every two years to prevent him going over daughters. Unless they are very high output sheep, you are going to struggle to justify a decent maternal ram to go over 15 ewes for 2 years, so either end up out of pocket, or breeding your replacements (& trying to sell) from a poor ram.

As above, do a deal with someone local and buy in your 3 replacements a year as Texel crosses, then put a decent terminal of your choice (or even one of @Ysgythan 's scraps) over them and sell all fat/store.

Would a texel tup onto texel cross ewes not cause my abit of trouble at lambing? I also failed to mention I’m lambing outdoor in April ?
Do you still think they’d be okay?

 

[Aspiring Peasants]

Would a texel tup onto texel cross ewes not cause my abit of trouble at lambing? I also failed to mention I’m lambing outdoor in April ?
Do you still think they’d be okay?

No, unless you pick a very thick headed tup, just don't let them get to fit. We lamb texel mules outside in April with no more problems than mules and less problems than when we tried Lleyns

 

[twizzel]

I would have thought you'd be on a hiding to nothing keeping your own replacements. Assuming you don't lamb the ewe lambs, you'll need to replace the ram every two years to prevent him going over daughters. Unless they are very high output sheep, you are going to struggle to justify a decent maternal ram to go over 15 ewes for 2 years, so either end up out of pocket, or breeding your replacements (& trying to sell) from a poor ram.

As above, do a deal with someone local and buy in your 3 replacements a year as Texel crosses, then put a decent terminal of your choice (or even one of @Ysgythan 's scraps) over them and sell all fat/store.

Go mv acc, buy a decent stock ram and put him back in a society sale if needs be once you’ve finished with him. A lot to be said for closing a flock apart from buying a ram every other year. You’re not buying someone’s second best replacements for 1, and bio security for 2… how much does it cost to (properly) quarantine incoming sheep?

 

[KieronHollis]

Go mv acc, buy a decent stock ram and put him back in a society sale if needs be once you’ve finished with him. A lot to be said for closing a flock apart from buying a ram every other year. You’re not buying someone’s second best replacements for 1, and bio security for 2… how much does it cost to (properly) quarantine incoming sheep?

I agree that there is lots of postives of a closed flock and I do like the thought of it. I’m not convinced that for my numbers it justifys paying for a good stock ram and keeping rams all year and then going MV pays enough extra than simply a Texel and selling Texel X ewe lambs for similar Money?

 

[Ysgythan]

or even one of @Ysgythan 's scraps

We occasionally get them

 

[twizzel]

I agree that there is lots of postives of a closed flock and I do like the thought of it. I’m not convinced that for my numbers it justifys paying for a good stock ram and keeping rams all year and then going MV pays enough extra than simply a Texel and selling Texel X ewe lambs for similar Money?

I’ve got a similar sized flock. I don’t have enough work for 2 rams but they keep each other company when they aren’t out with the ewes. But it depends if you just want to breed fat lambs or if you want to improve bloodlines, cull hard and see the benefits. If it’s the latter then close the flock.

 

[KieronHollis]

I’ve got a similar sized flock. I don’t have enough work for 2 rams but they keep each other company when they aren’t out with the ewes. But it depends if you just want to breed fat lambs or if you want to improve bloodlines, cull hard and see the benefits. If it’s the latter then close the flock.

That is the problem with having small flocks and needed two rams to stay together, it’s frustrating. If I had texel X ewes then could have better fat lambs and keep replacements im
Thinking? And also sell breeding ewe lambs

 

[neilo]

That is the problem with having small flocks and needed two rams to stay together, it’s frustrating. If I had texel X ewes then could have better fat lambs and keep replacements im
Thinking? And also sell breeding ewe lambs

If you had Texel X ewes then your options would be limited in terms of keeping replacements imo. If you go another cross of Texel then you will increase lambing problems ime, although obviously improve carcasses. I would struggle to convince myself that anything more than a first cross Texel would be suitable for outdoor lambing, and would question whether I could find the extra labour & losses would be acceptable indoors either these days (been there, done that).

With 15 ewes, you aren’t going to make any meaningful genetic progress in a closed flock, unless you are sourcing the very best genetics each year, have the Midas touch, and a whole lot of luck.
Keep it simple. Buy in replacements from a known source, then put a decent terminal over them to sell all lambs fat.

 

[Bury the Trash]

I’ve got a small flock of 15 pedigree Lleyn ewes this year. 3rd time lambing my own. First year with 8 ewes and last year with 18. Should I stick to breeding with a pedigree Lleyn tup and keep my own ewe lambs or should I simply put a texel on them and sell every lamb I have.
pros of the texel is every lamb sells well fat or as breeding ewe lambs. And the bought in ewes can be bred straight away as yearlings.
Cons is you have to buy in sheep every year as replacements and never breed an improved flock?
Pros of the pure Lleyn is improving your flock and keeping your best ewe lambs as well as selling the odd ram and ewe lambs for slightly more than the texel X
Cons of the pure Lleyn is the ram lambs are harder to finish and end up selling as stores for less money? The breed society is mainly all MV aswell
Was wandering peoples opionions? Is it worth having less sheep and keeping my own ewe lambs and maybe a ram lamb to sell as yearling or is it better to simply have 1 texel tup, sell all lambs early and buy ewes as needed?

Youre probably over thinking it, ie your flock is too small to be building from like that really better be a bit more opportunistic about the job and look for some like this https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/exlana-ewe-lambs.355372/ every now and then , build a useful flock then close it up when it gets to more viable numbers.
but The point is (apart from disease of course which is always the worst thing about buying in i know, goes without saying ) to get going with good genetics as much as anything
and anyway Charolais is a better quicker killing lamb on LLeyn in my experience put a nice one of them if you like them, on part of the flock and keep a nice lleyn for the best maternal percentage iyswim.

 

[Guiggs]

Do have somebody local that you could source a handful of decent lleyn ewes from each year as replacements?the bio security issue should be somewhat negated if you are being supplied by just one trusted source and then you can use a texel ram to breed fat lambs and ewe lambs with a breeding value.
Buy a flock aged ram if possible and cash him after a couple of seasons then buy a lleyn ram should you wish or another terminal.

 

[KieronHollis]

Do have somebody local that you could source a handful of decent lleyn ewes from each year as replacements?the bio security issue should be somewhat negated if you are being supplied by just one trusted source and then you can use a texel ram to breed fat lambs and ewe lambs with a breeding value.
Buy a flock aged ram if possible and cash him after a couple of seasons then buy a lleyn ram should you wish or another terminal.

I’m thinking this is the best way to go yes. Buying off farm so I can buy whatever number I need. And from the same source. I like the thought that if they are improving there flock every year then there ‘2nd rate’ sheep might well be better than the 1st rate sheep that I breed myself. Buying a texel ram and putting him over them all is fine but I still need somewhere to keep him or have something else to keep him with. 2 rams for 15 ewes maybe overkill but if I can keep both for a good 5-6 years as they won’t be worked hard then maybe it’s not that horrendous? By which point I could have more ewes anyway?

 

[Castle Farm]

I live on the Border near Hay-on-Wye. I have a nice LLeyn Ram lamb (6 months) if you want to borrow him. Message me if interested.

 

[KieronHollis]

I live on the Border near Hay-on-Wye. I have a nice LLeyn Ram lamb (6 months) if you want to borrow him. Message me if interested.

I really appreciate that, I’m not far from you! However I do currently have a Lleyn ram and a home bred ram lamb! I think I’m leaning towards getting a texel ram lamb for This year and then seeing where I’m at next year and how the lambs are! I’m keeping 4 lleyn ewe lambs this time anyway so my options are still open into next year and see how lambs are. Aswell as having 4 Lleyn yearlings next year to join the flock and see how my home breds
Look compared

 

[JBnonfarmer]

I really appreciate that, I’m not far from you! However I do currently have a Lleyn ram and a home bred ram lamb! I think I’m leaning towards getting a texel ram lamb for This year and then seeing where I’m at next year and how the lambs are! I’m keeping 4 lleyn ewe lambs this time anyway so my options are still open into next year and see how lambs are. Aswell as having 4 Lleyn yearlings next year to join the flock and see how my home breds
Look compared

Could you buy a top class ram lamb, each year, either texel or lleyn, select the best ewe lambs to retain in your flock, sell your top class year old ram, proven fertile, with the aim of breaking even or a slight profit to purchase your next top class lamb and continue improving your flock