Pedigree Lleyns?

Llyens vary in 'strain'. I have keep them for 18 years and wouldn't change breed.
 

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yellowbelly

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
N.Lincs
Hello,

I’ve just joined the site a few moments ago after lurking for quite a few months.

Bit of info: I’m a teenager living on a farm in Sussex. I’m very keen on sheep and am looking to do more with them in the future. We currently have a flock of Texel x Romany.

For a long time now I’ve been very interested in the Lleyn breed and they appear to be quite popular. I’ve heard that they’re easy lambers, good mothers and often produce triplets. Is this true? Would they be an ideal breed or are there better ones out there?

We have about 14 acres of grazing land which isn’t a huge amount so was also wondering about keeping a pedigree flock. From what I’ve read you can make quite a profit out of the pedigrees. Does anyone have experience with keeping and selling them?

Thank you for reading and look forward to hearing from people, if there are any questions please ask.

S
Aye up @fifteenfarming

Here's my sixpeneth (for what it's worth)
If you fancy some Lleyns, then go for it. They're a smallish breed and you'll be able to keep relatively more of them, than other breeds, on your smaller acreage.

Be guided by the commercial breeders who've commented above - they've been doing it for ages and have tried all sorts. Use their knowledge to get you 'ahead of the game' so you don't have to make those mistakes yourself.

Pedigree breeding (in all breeds) is a minefield of all sorts of problems - get some good commercial blood that will look after themselves.
From what I’ve read you can make quite a profit
I don't wish to discourage you in any way, the sheep industry needs all the keen, young blood it can get, but keeping any sort of sheep isn't the way to become the next Dyson/Bamford/Branson.

Let us know what you decide, enjoy your farming and keep lurking on TFF.
Good luck.
 
I do admire those people who have made a go of it and built a successful flock with commercial Lleyns. I bought a selection from various flocks with a view to doing the same, thinking they would be a self replacing alternative to the Texel or Beltex cross mule. They have been a disappointment on that score being prone to mastitis, not wearing well, not as maternal as the mule and generally unpleasant to work with. I'll be glad when the last are culled this year. For those who have made a success of them, how many years did it take to get to where you are with them and are is it really better than keeping a nucleus flock of mules crossed with a Beltex/Texel to breed your replacements which in turn produce a more valuable finished lamb?
 
Ap - its all about having a clearly designed plan for culling - and being the predator - culling hard even if it seems like itll be painful to the wallet - and being very keen on data collection to allow you to record those traits..

as a small producer im am rubbish at this - i find reasons to keep them all - not happening this year!
 

spark_28

Member
Location
Western isles
you are always going to have problems and issues no matter what breed it is, its up you to eradicate them and limit them as much as possible. easy to say a breed is this or that issue, but thats the producers fault, not the sheep.

Cull hard and you reap the benefits. as a crofter and a child whos family kept every sheep and had pet lambs every bloody year, sheep penned for being crap mothers and other issues, i didnt know the benefits of culling hard. now that i do i have no pet lambs and very very few problems. Still people round here who have sheep barren for the 2nd year running, i know someone who doesnt get rid of sheep that prolapse and hes had 2 this year in a flock of 35 plus many more people with other problems.

For me the lleyn is an ideal base flock.
 

Nithsdale

Member
Livestock Farmer
I do admire those people who have made a go of it and built a successful flock with commercial Lleyns. I bought a selection from various flocks with a view to doing the same, thinking they would be a self replacing alternative to the Texel or Beltex cross mule. They have been a disappointment on that score being prone to mastitis, not wearing well, not as maternal as the mule and generally unpleasant to work with. I'll be glad when the last are culled this year. For those who have made a success of them, how many years did it take to get to where you are with them and are is it really better than keeping a nucleus flock of mules crossed with a Beltex/Texel to breed your replacements which in turn produce a more valuable finished lamb?


You can't keep Mules as a nucleus flock - they are not self replacing... You would have to run Blackies or Swales etc as a nucleus and breed them yourself.


I started off in September 2005 buying 2 Lleyn tups. I took a risk, and fast-tracked the breeding by keeping ewe lambs off of ewe lambs so that I reached 'pure' in 4 years (15/16ths). Generally I am hard on my ewes anyway, which shows up faults/problems quickly, but in those early years I was ruthless at culling.


I presume your experience is with NoE Mules, of which I have much less experience - but compared to the Scottish equivalent, I see less mastitis now than I used to and they are longer living. I have ewes still running which were born in 2011 and I culled the 2010 ewes in the autumn.
 

neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
From what I've seen, for every farmer that raves about Lleyns, there is another that thinks they're awful things. They are far from the ideal ewe, but then what is?

I toyed with, and enquired about buying an entire flock of 250 Lleyns which were recorded and mv accredited a couple of years ago. The guy that was selling them later told me that was selling them as he was sick of the bullpoo resulting from the 'pedigree' side, and was selling them to expand his flock of Texel crosses.
Based on the handful of ewe lambs I bought from elsewhere to see how they'd cope on my system, I had a very lucky escape. :censored:
 

spark_28

Member
Location
Western isles
From what I've seen, for every farmer that raves about Lleyns, there is another that thinks they're awful things. They are far from the ideal ewe, but then what is?

I toyed with, and enquired about buying an entire flock of 250 Lleyns which were recorded and mv accredited a couple of years ago. The guy that was selling them later told me that was selling them as he was sick of the bullpoo resulting from the 'pedigree' side, and was selling them to expand his flock of Texel crosses.
Based on the handful of ewe lambs I bought from elsewhere to see how they'd cope on my system, I had a very lucky escape. :censored:

but they might of just been bad ewe lambs? at the end of the day, who sells their best stock?
 

primmiemoo

Member
Location
Devon
True, they were bad enough to stop me wanting any more. ;)

Bought a pen of 10 ped., unreg., organic Llyn ewe lambs once, and wished them further for the first year. 2 died more or less after their first mouthful of grass here, and one went severely lame - understandable, because naive to the territory. Two failed to get in lamb, even as 2tths. The rest did, and brought enzo to the flock!*

Cutting a long story short, two made it to 10 years old, each giving excellent ewe lambs, and one a stock ram. Nobody would have been able to say they'd be so valuable when first seen in the pen.



*seller had not answered honestly to enquiries about flock health. Won't buy from there again.
 

Nithsdale

Member
Livestock Farmer
From what I've seen, for every farmer that raves about Lleyns, there is another that thinks they're awful things. They are far from the ideal ewe, but then what is?

I toyed with, and enquired about buying an entire flock of 250 Lleyns which were recorded and mv accredited a couple of years ago. The guy that was selling them later told me that was selling them as he was sick of the bullpoo resulting from the 'pedigree' side, and was selling them to expand his flock of Texel crosses.
Based on the handful of ewe lambs I bought from elsewhere to see how they'd cope on my system, I had a very lucky escape. :censored:

True, they were bad enough to stop me wanting any more. ;)

Tarring an entire breed with 1 small trial...

Haven't you just done exactly what you try and tell folks not to do with the Chars?
:ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: ;)


Isn't the "bulls**t resulting from the pedigree side" a problem in all breeds, though?... and is only a problem if you want to chase/enter that side of the game which, by the sounds of it, your man was.


The biggest problem with Lleyns was the rapid growth of interest/popularity after F&M 2001 - Interestingly enough at the cost of the now "traditional" Mule ewes. Why were so many quick to drop what they had been doing, when they were given a clean slate and a fresh start?...
People bought what they could, thinking all ewes are equal and many got stung expecting them to be wondersheep.
But go to Carlisle - you can not expect the ewes or tups which come down from Orkney to be the same as those coming up from Herefordshire, for example...
 

Nithsdale

Member
Livestock Farmer
Bought a pen of 10 ped., unreg., organic Llyn ewe lambs once, and wished them further for the first year. 2 died more or less after their first mouthful of grass here, and one went severely lame - understandable, because naive to the territory. Two failed to get in lamb, even as 2tths. The rest did, and brought enzo to the flock!*

Cutting a long story short, two made it to 10 years old, each giving excellent ewe lambs, and one a stock ram. Nobody would have been able to say they'd be so valuable when first seen in the pen.



*seller had not answered honestly to enquiries about flock health. Won't buy from there again.


Can hardly blame the breed, for any of that
 
You can't keep Mules as a nucleus flock - they are not self replacing... You would have to run Blackies or Swales etc as a nucleus and breed them yourself.


I started off in September 2005 buying 2 Lleyn tups. I took a risk, and fast-tracked the breeding by keeping ewe lambs off of ewe lambs so that I reached 'pure' in 4 years (15/16ths). Generally I am hard on my ewes anyway, which shows up faults/problems quickly, but in those early years I was ruthless at culling.


I presume your experience is with NoE Mules, of which I have much less experience - but compared to the Scottish equivalent, I see less mastitis now than I used to and they are longer living. I have ewes still running which were born in 2011 and I culled the 2010 ewes in the autumn.
Thanks for that reply, the ruthless culling is the key to where you have got to with your flock. It does come with a cost though especially at the start, for example if you buy what are supposed to be good Lleyn shearlings they can be £120 to £150 and only be worth £70-£80 if you have to cull them a year later. That potential cost put me off when the majority of mules (NofE) I can buy from people I know, will do the job I want and last a long time. Just my take on it!
 

spark_28

Member
Location
Western isles
Bought a pen of 10 ped., unreg., organic Llyn ewe lambs once, and wished them further for the first year. 2 died more or less after their first mouthful of grass here, and one went severely lame - understandable, because naive to the territory. Two failed to get in lamb, even as 2tths. The rest did, and brought enzo to the flock!*

Cutting a long story short, two made it to 10 years old, each giving excellent ewe lambs, and one a stock ram. Nobody would have been able to say they'd be so valuable when first seen in the pen.



*seller had not answered honestly to enquiries about flock health. Won't buy from there again.

well i bought 20 gimmers last September. Theyve come to the far corner of Scotland from the central belt onto crap pasture and had rain on their backs nearly every day from November - end of march. all lambed outside, 30 lambs from 19 sheep (one never lambed) one single died (hung) the ewe was kicked out the pen the following day with a foster and all still have their lambs.
 

Nithsdale

Member
Livestock Farmer
Thanks for that reply, the ruthless culling is the key to where you have got to with your flock. It does come with a cost though especially at the start, for example if you buy what are supposed to be good Lleyn shearlings they can be £120 to £150 and only be worth £70-£80 if you have to cull them a year later. That potential cost put me off when the majority of mules (NofE) I can buy from people I know, will do the job I want and last a long time. Just my take on it!

You're wanting to jump straight in.


Personally I'd do it how I did, all over again - if I had to;

Of your existing ewes, pick the best which perform on your ground/system.
Select the best suited tups you can from flocks doing as you'd aspire to.


Breed your own. Produce more ewe lambs than you need, and then cull cull cull.

Repeat.
 

unlacedgecko

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Fife
You're wanting to jump straight in.


Personally I'd do it how I did, all over again - if I had to;

Of your existing ewes, pick the best which perform on your ground/system.
Select the best suited tups you can from flocks doing as you'd aspire to.


Breed your own. Produce more ewe lambs than you need, and then cull cull cull.

Repeat.

Exactly this. It's not rocket science. I don't know why do many people struggle with it.
 

Nithsdale

Member
Livestock Farmer
wouldnt touch them with a barge pole. (n):poop:


;)

I'm not daft enough to get into sticky mud by suggesting where to buy from or where to avoid... :ROFLMAO:

My point is just that it's a very different environment they've lived in, compared to Southern England










(there's a handful breeders near me which are close to the top of the tree, I wouldn't even look at their pens... but many others seem to think they are good ?‍♂️)
 

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