Peri em flufenacet...yes or no?

[John Slejpner]

Some unsprayed wheat would travel today. In the row from circa nov 20th drilling date.
Not much BG but what there is is 30mm 1 leaf.
Rough seedbed.
Bit of brome will appear any minute.

Weed control is based on autumn FFT + cheap partners and some spring applied SU against brome (supressing BG) where necessary. V rarely concerned with BLW. In a normal year.

Do i wait a little longer and add SU to flufenacet?
Go with FFT now? And SU not before mid march presumably
Go now with FFT and the SU? (Given mild forecast)

In an either or situation i am tempted to hold off FFT as long as possible / even not apply it at all for the benefit of a stronger wheat plant.

Just thinking out loud. I and others will be mugging the agronomist come Monday with variations of the above.
Any opinions welcome.

Happy new year.

 

[Hindsight]

Some unsprayed wheat would travel today. In the row from circa nov 20th drilling date.
Not much BG but what there is is 30mm 1 leaf.
Rough seedbed.
Bit of brome will appear any minute.

Weed control is based on autumn FFT + cheap partners and some spring applied SU against brome (supressing BG) where necessary. V rarely concerned with BLW. In a normal year.

Do i wait a little longer and add SU to flufenacet?
Go with FFT now? And SU not before mid march presumably
Go now with FFT and the SU? (Given mild forecast)

In an either or situation i am tempted to hold off FFT as long as possible / even not apply it at all for the benefit of a stronger wheat plant.

Just thinking out loud. I and others will be mugging the agronomist come Monday with variations of the above.
Any opinions welcome.

Happy new year.

You say 'rough seedbed', from which I presume well drained? And that to me is the key. or my tow penn'orth would treat with FFT now. I await other replies with interest. Suppose caveat would be prior knowledge of blackgrass status if field. As ever though each to their own.

 

[teslacoils]

Yes, get it on.

Is the seedbed / plant stand likely to want a good roll in spring?

 

[MNBVCXZ]

Thinking the same.
FFT label possibly states full rate to 31/12/2019 then half rate? Half rate not used unless with another at half rate.

 

[teslacoils]

Half rate liberator.....plus half rate pincer?

 

[David.]

If Atlantis still works for you, in early Spring it might be a better bet with 0.3 of Liberator, would clear up wild oats/blw, etc at same time.

 

[Brisel]

Some unsprayed wheat would travel today. In the row from circa nov 20th drilling date.
Not much BG but what there is is 30mm 1 leaf.
Rough seedbed.
Bit of brome will appear any minute.

Weed control is based on autumn FFT + cheap partners and some spring applied SU against brome (supressing BG) where necessary. V rarely concerned with BLW. In a normal year.

Do i wait a little longer and add SU to flufenacet?
Go with FFT now? And SU not before mid march presumably
Go now with FFT and the SU? (Given mild forecast)

In an either or situation i am tempted to hold off FFT as long as possible / even not apply it at all for the benefit of a stronger wheat plant.

Just thinking out loud. I and others will be mugging the agronomist come Monday with variations of the above.
Any opinions welcome.

Happy new year.

If you're worried about grass weeds then I'd get half rate FFCT on ASAP as it will soften the plants ready for the contact Broadway/Atlantis later on. What are your soil temperatures? It's just about warm enough for Atlantis as a tank mix partner but not Broadway Star but if you're expecting more to emerge then hold off with the SU. Atlantis has a good residual effect by itself - remember Lexus did the same.

 

[John Slejpner]

Thanks for the thoughts.

Hindsight - i see where you are coming from and agree that on anything not well drained FFT plus another decent rain would equal temporary water-logging, and the risk to the wheat might well outgun the reward.
Soil type is all Hanslope clay - half has a gentle fall and will handle rain well (ignoring the bottom headland a minute) - half is dead level old floodplain. a mile from the regions only significant river. (Not Great but it does Ouse).
Predictably the highest BG pressure is on the floodplain.
The water-table on the floodplain would have been inches from the surface Dec 23 when the Ouse peaked.

Rough seedbed is Claydon drilled (two harrow rows on drill ) and nothing else. Rough as in big surface area for FFT to cover, optimum option in most other respects, given the season.

Tesla - yes a spring roll might/would be useful if the chance arises. DAP on feb 15th might be more flexible means to the same end.
Agro does not like spring rolling - in his opinion the facilitation of spring BG flush plus having to wait with any tactical SU options add up to rolling not being worth the effort.

Brisel - thanks for the reminder of the residual effect of Atlantis.

David - Atlantis cannot be depended on at all to kill BG, but because it does lots else well and does suppress the BG it is used on occasion...but quite rarely.

Agro is going to say go with flufenacet ASAP and wait and see. ( Yes he is independent before anyone starts )

I have an inter-row hoe - it is not a gimmick - but i would not want to have to do 100's of acres with it either.

 

[Brisel]

I will roll all my wheat when it dries up enough to do so, hopefully before the end of March when I want to apply Broadway Star for the complete finish to the herbicide programme in my wheat. The surface is still soft and if nothing else I want to push the stones in in case something flattens the crop before harvest (!).

 

[teslacoils]

I've never spoken to an agronomist who like spring rolling. I still do it.

 

[Brisel]

It promotes tillering, improves root crown strength and pushes stones down away from the cutterbars or mowers. It's particularly relevant if you have frost heave on light soils. The trade off is breaking a layer of residual herbicide and triggering another flush of weeds. The mistake most make is doing it when too wet which compacts the surface, especially in the wheelings. No dust = no rolling

 

[teslacoils]

Indeed but the flush of weeds I've tended to find are broad leaved so easy. I'll roll "the living crap" out of my April sown barley.

 

[ollie989898]

I've never spoken to an agronomist who like spring rolling. I still do it.

I have recommended people do it on occasion. I am not against it entirely, but I didn't want to encourage it because it needs to be dry: properly dry, to a depth or you can see the wheel marks all season.

It definitely helps a crop that is stumbling along; the vigour is not quite there, soil has frost heaved and plants look like they are dozing. You get that lovely sort of crumbly texture on the soil surface, you roll that gently and it goes to powder, on goes the nitrogen, whack of manganese maybe and suddenly the sun hits the crop and it gets moving in top gear.

 

[ollie989898]

Indeed but the flush of weeds I've tended to find are broad leaved so easy. I'll roll "the living crap" out of my April sown barley.

Barley is a weed anyway; 99% of barley crops I seem are nearly daring you to try and sting them with herbicide, of course if you blink too often and the stuff has jumped up and you can't hit the weeds anyway. BLWs are easy because there are just so many herbicide options.

 

[teslacoils]

Twice over with the rolls on spring barley when it's tillering, splash of pgr and mineral, top up of kaynitro s and it's time to sit back and light your pipe.

 

[ollie989898]

Twice over with the rolls on spring barley when it's tillering, splash of pgr and mineral, top up of kaynitro s and it's time to sit back and light your pipe.

It's a weird crop. I just love how fast it grows.

 

[TheShireMan]

I heard recent that BASF have had their December cutoff timing for Crystal removed for post em application. Meaning it can used up to GS 23 for any winter wheat/Barley crop (eg Jan Feb+). Useful if we get any dry travelable days.

 

[Brisel]

I heard recent that BASF have had their December cutoff timing for Crystal removed for post em application. Meaning it can used up to GS 23 for any winter wheat/Barley crop (eg Jan Feb+). Useful if we get any dry travelable days.

I've seen that too. Do be aware that Crystal can be quite harsh if it makes contact with the seed or seedlings following heavy rain.

Herbicides/Crystal

Crystal® is a herbicide with residual and contact activity for the control of black-grass, annual grasses and broad leaved weeds in winter wheat and winter barl

www.agricentre.basf.co.uk

 

[Flat 10]

On a similar vein. Most of my ww has been drilled later than planned.... it has all had/will have liberator type product, pre or peri em. Normally it would have had a much more robust pre em, some worse land for BG would have had a residual follow up. Potentially with some atlantis on odd areas, especially where wild oats are a problem. My question is what are the best residual partners for Atlantis/legal and most effective for spring use as that’s most likely what will happen now I think.

 

[Brisel]

On a similar vein. Most of my ww has been drilled later than planned.... it has all had/will have liberator type product, pre or peri em. Normally it would have had a much more robust pre em, some worse land for BG would have had a residual follow up. Potentially with some atlantis on odd areas, especially where wild oats are a problem. My question is what are the best residual partners for Atlantis/legal and most effective for spring use as that’s most likely what will happen now I think.

What weeds are you targeting?