perkins A4-212 timing

[Mursal]

If you line up the pop marks is the two end cylinders on TDC?
And the valves open on number 4?
Therefore ready to fire on number 1?

 

[tedrick]

Hi i did change idler to match dots and again it will run with aero start but not on its own ,i did notice this time that a lot of black smoke so if i was to lean inj pump would i go one tooth foward on pump just checked engine no its 212-UA under that is 227741-L Cheers Ted

 

[Mursal]

But when you have pop marks lined up are the pistons on TDC with number 4 valves both open?
If after double checking several times, move on to the pump timing.
At point of injection, number one outlet (rotary pump) should lineup with the rotor as it passes the port? The old inline pump could be spilled timed in the same way. This can be checked with a copper wire gently pressing against the rotor approaching TDC at point of injection. The wire will drop onto the slot in the rotor. This will correspond to the timing marks on the pump, no?

A tooth on the gear will be far to much to move blind without marks.

Also double check injector pipes for correct fitment, firing order will be 1342 and pipes should be on the pump in this order. Easy to jump round 1 place when fitting onto the pump.

 

[Mursal]

Lad doing spill timing different engine same idea, click

 

[tedrick]

If you line up the pop marks is the two end cylinders on TDC?
And the valves open on number 4?
Therefore ready to fire on number 1?

Hi Mursal i took no 1 injector out hit starter for commpression stroke then wife turned motor over by hand until 22 before came past hole then slowly until TDC lined with pointer on the body number one valves were both closed and no 3 inlet was just starting to move Cheers Ted

 

[tedrick]

But when you have pop marks lined up are the pistons on TDC with number 4 valves both open?
If after double checking several times, move on to the pump timing.
At point of injection, number one outlet (rotary pump) should lineup with the rotor as it passes the port? The old inline pump could be spilled timed in the same way. This can be checked with a copper wire gently pressing against the rotor approaching TDC at point of injection. The wire will drop onto the slot in the rotor. This will correspond to the timing marks on the pump, no?

A tooth on the gear will be far to much to move blind without marks.

Also double check injector pipes for correct fitment, firing order will be 1342 and pipes should be on the pump in this order. Easy to jump round 1 place when fitting onto the pump.

Hi Mursal I will go and recheck every thing i did check timing pipes and it is 1342 i also used 90 psi into w on pump -number one inj pipe and turned clockwise until resistance but thanks again have to take the wife down to her mums so wont get a crack at it until monday Cheers Ted

 

[MF-ANDY]

I dont understand all this talk about timing, tippex marks, dot punches and scribed lines. Find tdc no 1 using the proper mark on the flywheel then install the idler using the proper marks. Timing will then be correct. Why not remove an injector and connect it up externally to see if it is actually injecting. As said before be careful of the high pressure fuel if you do this.

 

[John100]

You fix it then. im off

 

[MF-ANDY]

You fix it then. im off

Bring it here then

 

[tedrick]

Hi Guys tried everything people suggested ,but went back to scribed lines, have got it to go with aero start then it run on its own ,i found that sometimes there wasnt a lot of fuel at the injector and i was told to gently tap the end of inj pump and that helped ,i did take the inj out and compression was 150 psi on every cly (didnt do anything with valve seats only new valves ) but i really appreciate all the help from everyone ,it helped me greatly Thanks again everyone Cheers Ted

 

[Mursal]

As you know 150 is too low for a diesel Ted, do a cylinder leakage test to see where its being lost.
TDC, fill with compressed air, listen for leaks.

 

[agrimax]

And.........if there's little fuel getting to the injectors,did you check the gauze filter in the inlet end of the injector pump is still clean? Might be a recent pump but is the rest of the system clean?

 

[mikep]

It may not apply to this engine but i came across a situation on a zetor engine with similar confusion. The workshop manual for these is rather basic and shows the usual dots and scribed lines. Thinking i know what to do i lined up the dots and bingo nothing, I could not work out the problem but the pigeon english kept refering to checking the centre lines, absolutely no bloody reason to i thought but i was wrong. Although the gears looked identical one had 52 teeth the other 53 so unless you got the lines and dots correct you had a 1 in 50ish chance of being right. The lines tell you at what position the engine should be timed and then you match the dots.

 

[Right-arm fast]

I just wonder if the new injectors have shown up severe wear in the inj pump possibly so not raising the pressure to lift needle for long enough_ bit of a long shot. I agree with Mursal that 150psi is really low, did you lap the valves in observing the continuity of the grey band in the seating contact area on the valve to get an air tight seal and checking the condition of the seats especially the exhaust? Just thoughts.

 

[tedrick]

As you know 150 is too low for a diesel Ted, do a cylinder leakage test to see where its being lost.
TDC, fill with compressed air, listen for leaks.

Hi Mursal ,i used a normal car compression gauge and it was very hard to hold in so just went on whether they were all the same, i will have to make something to bolt on and test Cheers Ted

 

[tedrick]

And.........if there's little fuel getting to the injectors,did you check the gauze filter in the inlet end of the injector pump is still clean? Might be a recent pump but is the rest of the system clean?

Hi Agrimax thanks i will check that the pump is new only done 20 hours but it is 3 years old,i did replace fuel tank tap and 2 fuel filters Cheers Ted

 

[Mursal]

Ted there is one for diesels, that bolt in instead of the injector, could you get a lend of one from anyone?
We could easily double the 150 then so ......

 

[tedrick]

H

I just wonder if the new injectors have shown up severe wear in the inj pump possibly so not raising the pressure to lift needle for long enough_ bit of a long shot. I agree with Mursal that 150psi is really low, did you lap the valves in observing the continuity of the grey band in the seating contact area on the valve to get an air tight seal and checking the condition of the seats especially the exhaust? Just thoughts.

Hi Right-arm fast the pump is new done about 20 hours and dont know much about inj pumps but i was told to tap the rear end of pump and that seemed to help so i assume their must be some type of valve there ,did cheat on head though put all new valves in and lapped using drill forward and reverse should have sent head out but they wanted over $800 to put seats ect in and i didnt have the money at the time ,but i did get a grey band around the seat Cheers Ted

 

[tedrick]

Ted there is one for diesels, that bolt in instead of the injector, could you get a lend of one from anyone?
We could easily double the 150 then so ......

Hi Mursal no i live about 200 klms out of town and dont know any work shops but i do have lathes welders ect so wont be hard to do Cheers Ted

 

[tomlad]

What pressure would the guage want to go to @Mursal out of interest
300 400 lb ?