Permitted Development Conversion

Forever Fendt

Member
Location
Derbyshire
When I'm back in the office I will refer back to the GPDO
not being argumentative ,but thats how i understand it but i could be wrong ,with these things LPA's interpret the rules how they like to suite there hidden agenda, i would be grateful if you put up a link to the decision you referred to earlier ,having said all this if you have a serviceable building it is worth having a go but these days it will require a robust application by a competent planing consultant
 
not being argumentative ,but thats how i understand it but i could be wrong ,with these things LPA's interpret the rules how they like to suite there hidden agenda, i would be grateful if you put up a link to the decision you referred to earlier ,having said all this if you have a serviceable building it is worth having a go but these days it will require a robust application by a competent planing consultant
I understand you aren't trying to be arguementative, and this is a forum for free speech so I'm happy to discuss this with you.

From the GPDO:
Part 3 Class Q.1(h) states "Development is not permitted if development under Class Q (together with any previous development under Class Q) would result in a building or buildings having more than 450 square metres of floor space having a use falling within Class C3 (dwellinghouses) of the Schedule to the Use Classes Order".

As I read that, if the floor area of the proposed dwelling exceeds 450m2 then it is not permitted under PD.

The GPDO is the document all PD applications must adhere to and the document Local Authorities must use in their decision making.

Whether the local authority enforce the GPDO to the full or interprete it as we would is another matter!!!
 

Forever Fendt

Member
Location
Derbyshire
I understand you aren't trying to be arguementative, and this is a forum for free speech so I'm happy to discuss this with you.

From the GPDO:
Part 3 Class Q.1(h) states "Development is not permitted if development under Class Q (together with any previous development under Class Q) would result in a building or buildings having more than 450 square metres of floor space having a use falling within Class C3 (dwellinghouses) of the Schedule to the Use Classes Order".

As I read that, if the floor area of the proposed dwelling exceeds 450m2 then it is not permitted under PD.

The GPDO is the document all PD applications must adhere to and the document Local Authorities must use in their decision making.

Whether the local authority enforce the GPDO to the full or interprete it as we would is another matter!!!
part Q 1b is a bit contradictory to this , is this poorly drafted legislation or is it all like this
 
1b refers to the existing building floor area.

I believe the two parts together are there to stop for example a 600m2 building having 450m2 of it converted.

The GPDO is written in a confusing way which is why even as a planning professional I am forever referencing it and with every PD application we will submit a statement outlining the relevant section and our interpretation of it. At least that way the local authority will see where we are coming from.
 
Thats when you have to tell them and not ask politely
That is where as a Planning Consultant we feel we add most value to a clients application. We are aware of the hoops that are needed to be jumped through and in our case my boss sat on the other side of the fence for 7 years!
Planning isn't so much about explaining what you want but rather telling the council why it can't be refused. That is why PD applications are preferable as there is no leeway in the decision process for the Officer's opinions, either it's is PD or its not. When you get to full planning you have to consider the human thought process as well.
 

Still Farming

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
South Wales UK
That is where as a Planning Consultant we feel we add most value to a clients application. We are aware of the hoops that are needed to be jumped through and in our case my boss sat on the other side of the fence for 7 years!
Planning isn't so much about explaining what you want but rather telling the council why it can't be refused. That is why PD applications are preferable as there is no leeway in the decision process for the Officer's opinions, either it's is PD or its not. When you get to full planning you have to consider the human thought process as well.
It's like telling them the answers they already know!
 

David.

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
J11 M40
Agricultural to Residential under PD (Part 3, Class Q) must be COMPLETED within 3 years of permission being granted.

We are certainly encouraging people with the opportunity of exercising their PD rights to do it as soon as possible, there may be a time when PD rights will be revoked.
Has anyone tested the sanctions that may follow the failure to complete within 3 years yet?
 
It's like telling them the answers they already know!
It's more like telling the answers they SHOULD know! The GPDO is 164 pages long and has 19 parts which all have multiple sections and classes. Part 3 (Change of Use, which is the topic of this thread) alone has 20+ classes! And the GPDO only covers Permitted Development!

For Full Planning they will also need to refer to the NPPF which is another 65 pages, plus their own Local Authority policies and any other guidance from the EA etc.

I know many of my posts seem to be in sympathy of the Planning Officers but I have come into this industry from an non-policy driven occupation and I can understand how having to justify decisions based on 100's of pages of policy which is not written in plain English can be difficult and certain aspects maybe overlooked. This is why we like to state the policies in our submission as we then come across 'on a par' with them (and we can not highlight any policies we don't want to!). We have had dealings with over 20 Planning Officers in the past 12 months from nearly a dozen different LA's and I have yet to have any serious issues with any of them; we do tend to lock horns over timescales and tardyness in communication but once officer I spoke to this week has 60 open cases on his desk and he is in a department of 8 junior and 3 senior officers so if they all have an equal case load then it is no wonder I can never get hold of them!
 

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Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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