Permitted Development Conversion

[Forever Fendt]

Has anyone tested the sanctions that may follow the failure to complete within 3 years yet?

dont do it there is two much to loose ,here they would not be forgiving at all

 

[George from SJM Planning]

We have 5 years

As long as that is what the paperwork says then you are ok

 

[Nearly]

We have 5 years

Ssshhhh

Probably before the councils realised they could shorten or alter the time scale to try and make it difficult.

 

[Still Farming]

It's more like telling the answers they SHOULD know! The GPDO is 164 pages long and has 19 parts which all have multiple sections and classes. Part 3 (Change of Use, which is the topic of this thread) alone has 20+ classes! And the GPDO only covers Permitted Development!

For Full Planning they will also need to refer to the NPPF which is another 65 pages, plus their own Local Authority policies and any other guidance from the EA etc.

I know many of my posts seem to be in sympathy of the Planning Officers but I have come into this industry from an non-policy driven occupation and I can understand how having to justify decisions based on 100's of pages of policy which is not written in plain English can be difficult and certain aspects maybe overlooked. This is why we like to state the policies in our submission as we then come across 'on a par' with them (and we can not highlight any policies we don't want to!). We have had dealings with over 20 Planning Officers in the past 12 months from nearly a dozen different LA's and I have yet to have any serious issues with any of them; we do tend to lock horns over timescales and tardyness in communication but once officer I spoke to this week has 60 open cases on his desk and he is in a department of 8 junior and 3 senior officers so if they all have an equal case load then it is no wonder I can never get hold of them!

After you have "quoted"all these policies-statements -assembly and national guidelines and policies in a planning statement highlighting the applicable ones that are relavant to your application and that you feel your meet or match or are valid
Is it then more or less difficult for them to then real off in a refusal to counter your claims ?
Also does it look better as you have supplied all this data if it then goes to an Appeal ?Thanks

 

[David.]

Ours was granted almost 2 years ago with 3 yrs to complete.
Tick-tock indeed.
I'm just intrigued to find out if they would order reinstatement to ag if you had for eg; not got the last coat of magnolia on the walls; or if complete would be satisfied if you had it all weathertight and secure, kitchen and loo and bedroom complete, but had perhaps not completed the utility annex etc.
Perhaps it is considered to be complete when you start paying council tax?

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Ours was granted almost 2 years ago with 3 yrs to complete.
Tick-tock indeed.
I'm just intrigued to find out if they would order reinstatement to ag if you had for eg; not got the last coat of magnolia on the walls; or if complete would be satisfied if you had it all weathertight and secure, kitchen and loo and bedroom complete, but had perhaps not completed the utility annex etc.
Perhaps it is considered to be complete when you start paying council tax?

I suspect this is another area that the LPA could exploit. You could sell their written confirmation that development was complete, that would be hard for them to argue with.

 

[George from SJM Planning]

After you have "quoted"all these policies-statements -assembly and national guidelines and policies in a planning statement highlighting the applicable ones that are relavant to your application and that you feel your meet or match or are valid
Is it then more or less difficult for them to then real off in a refusal to counter your claims ?
Also does it look better as you have supplied all this data if it then goes to an Appeal ?Thanks

The reason we take this approach is because as a LPA Planning Officer Simon, my boss found it harder to refuse an application if the applicant/agent had shown the due dilligance to refer to the appropriate policies. It is much harder for the Case Offiecr to say you are lying about a pertinant policy than to say that you hadn't considered it. The policies pertaining to Full Planning applications can be interpretted differently by different people (Simon and I regularly read a policy differntly) so by stating how we interpret it it may make the case offficer say "oh, I didn't think of it that way".

We rarely submit an application without a statement outlining the policies, even for a single storey rear extension I can quote 3 to 4 relevant policies.

We have a very good record of getting applications through without going to an appeal; if we have an application that looks to be going the wrong way we will sit down with the case officer and try to hash out a solution; they don't want an appeal and neither do our clients. When we have gone to appeal, knowing and applying the policies goes a long way to showing the appeal officer that we know what we are doing and would not have wasted everyones time with an appeal if we didn't think we were right. There is no point turning up at an appeal and pointing a finger at the LPA and saying "they refused permission becasue they don't like me"!

 

[Doing it for the kids]

That is where as a Planning Consultant we feel we add most value to a clients application. We are aware of the hoops that are needed to be jumped through and in our case my boss sat on the other side of the fence for 7 years!
Planning isn't so much about explaining what you want but rather telling the council why it can't be refused. That is why PD applications are preferable as there is no leeway in the decision process for the Officer's opinions, either it's is PD or its not. When you get to full planning you have to consider the human thought process as well.

I would never say it to them but our planning consultant and agronomist are the cheapest skills we employ!

Around here the council are so short of cash they are worried about the costs of appeal etc. If you have a reasonable care potrayed in a very robust way out are often over half way there

 

[Still Farming]

Ours was granted almost 2 years ago with 3 yrs to complete.
Tick-tock indeed.
I'm just intrigued to find out if they would order reinstatement to ag if you had for eg; not got the last coat of magnolia on the walls; or if complete would be satisfied if you had it all weathertight and secure, kitchen and loo and bedroom complete, but had perhaps not completed the utility annex etc.
Perhaps it is considered to be complete when you start paying council tax?

Some wasters around here never complete so never get a compleation certificate so never get council tax bill -and they lived there for 20 yrs ???

 

[Honest john]

I have one that is for sale as is. In Agricultural condition.

It was sold once but buyer couldn't complete funds.

Time is pushing on to the point that I doubt it can be completed in the three years.

Should we apply for an extension of time ?
Reapply ?

Any Thoughts please.

 

[Kidds]

I have one that is for sale as is. In Agricultural condition.

It was sold once but buyer couldn't complete funds.

Time is pushing on to the point that I doubt it can be completed in the three years.

Should we apply for an extension of time ?
Reapply ?

Any Thoughts please.

I asked our agent if they could be extended, they said as long as it has seriously been started and is obvious that building work is actively underway there "probably" won't be a problem. Should it not be started and an extension is requested there is no guarantee that it would be granted and such an approach is very risky.
I hardly think the LPA is likely to say put it all back to how it was if there is just the kitchen to fit when the 3 years are up. I am not willing to risk it myself mind.
We have one under class Q that has about 20 months to go and we are about to start the process of marketing them. Only realised it was "complete" within 3 years after reading a thread on here recently. :O

 

[Forever Fendt]

I have one that is for sale as is. In Agricultural condition.

It was sold once but buyer couldn't complete funds.

Time is pushing on to the point that I doubt it can be completed in the three years.

Should we apply for an extension of time ?
Reapply ?

Any Thoughts please.

Get on with it and use a private building inspector and don't use the council inspectors or make a minor amendment and do a new application to start the ball rolling again