Pheasant Damage

[Bumble Bee]

Yet again shoot on the estate we farm appear to have put down too many peasants. Only this year they have surpassed themselves. They have not put out any feeders either. As you can imagine, they are now fending for themselves in our wheat.

Last year we lost quite a lot of wheat just before harvest, then lost several acres of OSR and wheat after drilling. trying to get any meaning full compensation out of them is like trying to get blood out of a stone.

Has anybody got any advice as I am at a loss what to do. I have a few ideas, but i'm not sure that they are strictly legal or that my landlord would approve.

TIA

Bumble Bee

 

[nick...]

Luckily the local game keeper left 18 months ago so hardly anything about.partridges decimated the rape 3 years ago so don't miss them either
Nick...

 

[Bumble Bee]

Don't get me started on the game keeper....

 

[limestone brash]

What sort of tenancy are you on?

 

[Bumble Bee]

Aha

 

[limestone brash]

There are standard provisions within an aha tenancy to apply for compensation for game damage where the shooting tenancy is separate to the farm tenancy
You need to notify the landlord in writing as soon as the damage becomes evident and the submit a quantified claim with photos and figures to back it up
If they don't pay up you can apply to the agricultural lands tribunal for a decision
They will pay prior to this providing you follow the correct process and show them you mean business

 

[Bumble Bee]

In the past the land agent has claimed that it is the shoots responsibility to pay compensation. The shoot then claim that they have no money etc and we end up with only a fraction of the money owed.

This is now becoming a regular occurrence and cannot continue like this.

The shoot should really have insurance for these claims, but i don't think that they bother.
Does it then fall to the landlord to pay the compensation if the shoot fails to do so?

 

[Dry Rot]

In the past the land agent has claimed that it is the shoots responsibility to pay compensation. The shoot then claim that they have no money etc and we end up with only a fraction of the money owed.

This is now becoming a regular occurrence and cannot continue like this.

The shoot should really have insurance for these claims, but i don't think that they bother.
Does it then fall to the landlord to pay the compensation if the shoot fails to do so?

I don't remember much from college but I do remember a doctrine in law called "Privatey of contract".

That means you will usually have a contract with your landlord (your lease) and the landlord has a separate contract with the shooting tenant. You are not meant to deal directly with the shooting tenant unless you have a direct agreement (signatures on paper) with the shooting tenant -- but it is often more convenient for everyone involved if you do deal direct.

On the same subject, the gamekeeper is employed by the land owner or shooting tenant and is answerable to them and the land owner/shoot tenant is answerable to the farming tenant.

As I've said many times before, get it in writing and keep a copy. The letters don't have to be stiff and formal and can be friendly and polite. Then they can't say, "We didn't know". If in doubt, engage a country orientated solicitor or land agent. (Yeah, nobody likes them but sometimes they have their uses).

As a shooting tenant years ago, I had one farmer who was always complaining about rabbit damage. I simply gave permission for him or one other (authorised in writing) to control the rabbits which didn't please him one bit because the gamekeeper was far better at it! So be aware that it is often best to get things done by friendly agreement rather than wielding the big stick!

 

[chipchap]

Sadly only the big stick approach is the only approach that works with land agents.
Your claim is against your landlord.
Get a good agent to work for you. Good agents that take instruction from tenants are few and far between, most are "landlords men"
Act like a gentleman, because if you don't, you can't expect to be treated like one.

 

[Bumble Bee]

The agent thankyou for your replies.

I have emailed the agent but he appears to be on annual leave. But for what it is worth, i think he is a bit sick of this shoot as well because of all the trouble that they cause.

The Landladys son has just taken over running the estate and so far has been very good to deal with....and I'd like to keep it that way.
I might go and see him face to face. He often walks round the estate, so hopefully he will be able to see the problem for himself.

Unfortunately, friendly does not seem to work with this shoot. I have tried that way. Wielding the big stick is only marginally better.

 

[limestone brash]

You won't get anywhere dealing with the shoot directly -you have no contractural relationship with them
Your claim is against the landlord
there is a standard procedure within an aha for making such a claim

 

[Flat 10]

Yes get your own agent.

 

[ajcc]

Any claim must surely involve landlord. The present lack of feeders is most certainly due to desire to anchor birds to the pen at this early stage and keep the feeding within same. Maybe if the keeper knew it was not working he will drive birds back or get some better food (pellets) to your wheat field.....you both have to get along with one another so stay cool and talk is much better than despising everything they do.
If you really can't cope with the shoot you need to involve landlord but beware he may like his shooting and the income it provides over and above a bellyaching tenant so important relationships can sour. Historically tenants often have to put up with a lot and make best of it.

 

[Nearly]

@Magnums'R'Us has this sussed. I can let you have some mesh baskets for putting over rape seedlings to assess damage outside etc.

 

[Bumble Bee]

@Magnums'R'Us has this sussed. I can let you have some mesh baskets for putting over rape seedlings to assess damage outside etc.

That's the next problem. The fields of wheat that are been eaten are going in with rape. We lost 5 ac last year and 8 ac a couple of years before that.
Have got hold of the shoot captain and he is going to have a word with the keeper. Watch this space...........

 

[Bumble Bee]

Any claim must surely involve landlord. The present lack of feeders is most certainly due to desire to anchor birds to the pen at this early stage and keep the feeding within same. Maybe if the keeper knew it was not working he will drive birds back or get some better food (pellets) to your wheat field.....you both have to get along with one another so stay cool and talk is much better than despising everything they do.
If you really can't cope with the shoot you need to involve landlord but beware he may like his shooting and the income it provides over and above a bellyaching tenant so important relationships can sour. Historically tenants often have to put up with a lot and make best of it.

There is a bit of history with this shoot. The first time this ever happed i had a very polite word with the keeper and simply asked him if he could put a few more feeders out. I was told to feck off and he drove off. We then lost a considerable amount of OSR and wheat.

We have also had problems in the past from previous shoots (though not all) ranging from threats of violence, theft, criminal damage to name but a few.

I can get on with most people and am pretty laid back, but I'm afraid this is my livelihood and they don't give 2 hoots.

The trouble with the shoots now seems to be greed. The shoots on the estate used to consider a 100 bird day to be a good one. Now they want 200 bird days or more, so pile thousands of birds down and don't feed them enough. There is no chance of them buying pellets as they say they are too expensive. They even went onto buying screenings last year as they were cheap and brought blackgrass onto part of the farm.

Needless to say i have about had my fill of them.

Rant over.

 

[Dry Rot]

There is a bit of history with this shoot. The first time this ever happed i had a very polite word with the keeper and simply asked him if he could put a few more feeders out. I was told to feck off and he drove off. We then lost a considerable amount of OSR and wheat.

We have also had problems in the past from previous shoots (though not all) ranging from threats of violence, theft, criminal damage to name but a few.

I can get on with most people and am pretty laid back, but I'm afraid this is my livelihood and they don't give 2 hoots.

The trouble with the shoots now seems to be greed. The shoots on the estate used to consider a 100 bird day to be a good one. Now they want 200 bird days or more, so pile thousands of birds down and don't feed them enough. There is no chance of them buying pellets as they say they are too expensive. They even went onto buying screenings last year as they were cheap and brought blackgrass onto part of the farm.

Needless to say i have about had my fill of them.

Rant over.

I'm afraid shooting is now a numbers game. I ran a small sporting agency for oil company personnel back when it was a tax deductable expense to entertain foreign nationals and all anyone wanted to know was "how many?".

What disgusted me most was that it made me into a greedy shot as on some days I shot most of the birds! Frankly, I was glad when the tax system changed and I was able to give it up.

But it did give rise to some amusing situations. The Guns often did not have a clue and parties could be topped up by office staff. One little character arrived with pebble glasses and clearly did not have a clue and even had difficulty seeing the birds. But I kept hearing cries of "Jeez! Got that beggar too!" at one drive. I did not understand wat whas going on until I realized the keeper had a double line of Guns at that drive and behind this particular chracter was one of the best shots in the county! I'm not sure how he accounted for the delay in his firing and the bird falling but he was certainly enjoying himself!

I believe in Italy, shooting is heavily taxed. I expect that will come to the UK soon enough if Packham gets his way.

 

[Bumble Bee]

Update!
Managed to get hold of someone from the shoot the other day and some feeders have now appeared. I even heard mention of pellets.
Fingers cross that they spend a bit less time in our wheat.

 

[flintgrinder]

There is a bit of history with this shoot. The first time this ever happed i had a very polite word with the keeper and simply asked him if he could put a few more feeders out. I was told to feck off and he drove off. We then lost a considerable amount of OSR and wheat.

We have also had problems in the past from previous shoots (though not all) ranging from threats of violence, theft, criminal damage to name but a few.

I can get on with most people and am pretty laid back, but I'm afraid this is my livelihood and they don't give 2 hoots.

The trouble with the shoots now seems to be greed. The shoots on the estate used to consider a 100 bird day to be a good one. Now they want 200 bird days or more, so pile thousands of birds down and don't feed them enough. There is no chance of them buying pellets as they say they are too expensive. They even went onto buying screenings last year as they were cheap and brought blackgrass onto part of the farm.

Needless to say i have about had my fill of them.

Rant over.

I have constant battles with the Landlord and his shooting tenant over crop damage, almost all (but not exclusively) partridges on Rape. The Landlord’s agent is constantly trying to abrogate responsibility and fob me off into dealing with the shooting tenants agent, don’t fall for this one, you are in a strong position if you follow the set procedure. Get your self a good strong agent, (not a namby pamby landlord’s man) also insurance is another good tool. The NFU Mutual tenants extension is best as it pays for preliminary work done on your behalf and not just the actual tribunal. You need to show them you mean business. You should as has been suggested always be courteous and formal about such things. Most importantly don’t take any notice of tales such as "well none of the other tenants complain" that is not your problem.

 

[Bumble Bee]

We have managed to have 2 different shoots on the estate since this incident. Thankfully both a lot better than that shower. Only had 1 incident of pheasant damage in the last 4 years which is a vast improvement. This was settled amicably.
It's a lot easier when both parties can work together. We can both gain a lot from each other.