Thats what the article said on this mornings TV news? Why is there such a rush? fashion? call it whatever, to reindroduce so many animals that were hunted out? the results of earlier reintroducions, such as sea eagles, beavers, otters are now starting to have effects on farm animals, land management, etc that these people who have pushed for this, naively diddnt think? would happen? they seem to me, that they imagine all these animals will happily? live together? not alone starting to affect landowners, livestock farmers animals and income?
Pine Martins To Be Reintroduced?
- Thread starter bluebell
- Start date
Cowabunga
Member
- Location
- Ceredigion,Wales
So many questions, I don’t know where to start or whether there is an answer to most of them.
we have loads of pine Martin up here.So that's really weird if they want to re introduce them as they are already here. They like hens. By the way bird flu is taking quite a number of sea eagles. Otters are here too and not a problem not sure what you mean by that. Wolves I dont like, I was chased by a pack of 4 wolf x husky with no recall on the beach last night where I was schooling a pony. pony took off bucking, im still shaken. The owner was a complete arse
ok yes fair enough but we dont seem to have a bother with them here as they are sea otters and eat crabs in the estuary. Nobody has fish ponds up here. They do bother the cages in the fish farms though . Maybe best to leave the otters and pine Martin up here as they are not a bother .
farmgineer
Member
People's perception of nature can be seen in the old kids TV series, the animals of farthing wood.
Complete load of rubbish
Complete load of rubbish
There have been a few Pine Martin re-introduction schemes over here to try to boost red squirrel numbers and only now are they starting to twig on that once the Pine Martins have fewer greys to kill then they start on the reds, so the initial decline in grey squirrel numbers is eventually matched by a decline in reds as well.
It should be all about habitat, give nature the freedom to sort itself out and it will do it much more effectively than when the humans try to 'help' it.
The consequences of human interference are seldom mitigated by more human interference.
Last edited:
Cowabunga
Member
- Location
- Ceredigion,Wales
What do you expect me to say? Badgers carry and spread TB and are a public health hazard and a drain on the public purse. Not all badgers of course but in particular areas they are a massive disease problem and their population density is way above what is acceptable for agriculture and badger health.
Best thing to do is catch them all in ‘problem areas’ and ship them over to you where there is no vulnerable livestock to infect. Problem solved.
You’re welcome.
The problem as i see it, is this? From my education at school of the history of england, great britian, europe, these areas of the world have been settled, farmed for thousands of years? traces of which are still to be seen in many rural parts of these countries? Other parts of the world, such as canada, australia, other than the few indiginous people, have only been widely settled, farmed for at the most a couple of hundred years? Some land in these new? countries has only just been cleared and grown its first crop? unlike many parts of europe where archeology, or even the modern craze of metal detecting in fields shows finds dating back thousands of years? My point, simply is that england, europe, the land, the animals that live either wild or farmed has been farmed, controlled, hunted, for thousands of years? Now some new enlightened view , from them that know? or have the education? ear to the govt? want to change alot of that? With no local? traditional? view? not alone the simply fact above all that ive said? the UKs population has grown alot in the last 10 years, figures are talked of by even 4 million extra people? At the same time the UKs populations grows, increases? so does the loss of many thousands of acres of land a year? much of that land lost is farm land that had, could have grown food?
I would have thought pine martins would be the exception to the reintroduction rule, greys aren’t naturally here and whilst trapping and shooting works to a degree we need a 24/7 solution that isn’t dosing them with birth control.
Would love if they did a trial not on an island, the reports of them preying on reds makes me wonder if they are unable to expand territory, I assume they hunt over a large area like any predator. They are opportunistic animals, where isolated woodland isn’t helpful to enable them to spread and grow, I would suggest using canals and topography.
Would love if they did a trial not on an island, the reports of them preying on reds makes me wonder if they are unable to expand territory, I assume they hunt over a large area like any predator. They are opportunistic animals, where isolated woodland isn’t helpful to enable them to spread and grow, I would suggest using canals and topography.
toquark
Member
We’ve got Pine Martens here, been here for decades I think. They’re very rarely spotted. We’ve only got red squirrels but greys aren’t far away and I know people who have had martens move in have seen an increase in reds again, sometimes after an absence of years so that correlation does seem to be apparent, but like all mustelids they are ferocious predators so the collateral damage to ground nesting species may well be significant.
With the swarms of buzzards and other predatory birds around my neck of the woods any ground nesting birds losses would probably be quite negligible. I have seen a reduction in greys through more active woodland management, especially removing self seeding trees and holly, to an extent this might make them easier prey for the buzzards ?.
- Location
- Perthshire (It's a big place!)
Got them here in lowland perthshire anyway. They help to keep down grey squirrels
- Location
- roe valley
My landlord asked me during covid and I quote 'hooby I would love if you could find the estate a lovely set of breeding pine Martins to get rid of those pesky greys'. I nearly doubled over I'm not sure who he thinks I am and who my contacts are, but it's been a long while since any went through the local mart.
I see that Ian Blackford, SNP leader in House of Commons, is not only a wealthy banker but also has a croft and is being bedevilled by the White Tailed Sea Eagle and has lost 10 ex 60 lambs this year to them. So much so that he has called for a cull … which NatureScot has rejected out of hand
www.thetimes.co.uk
(paywall probably)
Probably just as well that they weren’t introduced to the Isle of Wight
Calls for a cull increase as sea eagles pick off lambs ‘like Mars bars’
With a wingspan of up to 2.5m, the majestic white-tailed eagle reintroduced to Britain from Norway is the country’s largest bird of prey.But calls for a cull of
www.thetimes.co.uk
(paywall probably)
Probably just as well that they weren’t introduced to the Isle of Wight
Was up in the Cairngorms on holiday last year and got talking to one of the local keepers. He was involved in a project to encourage the capercaillie, which is under serious threat , think he said the population was down to about 300. He had grave concerns about the pine marten predating the eggs and chicks of the capers. The project group had lobbied they’re local MP for a license to control the pine marten, but could get no interest - the idea wasn’t a vote winner with the townies.
The unmanaged protection of one species is leading to the near extinction of another.
The unmanaged protection of one species is leading to the near extinction of another.
- Location
- Scottish Highlands
Back in the 1970s, I was on Speyside, so next door to the Cairngorms. Capercaillzie were considered vermin because they did so much damage to pine trees, nipping off the shoots. I can recall two shoots. We shot 54 caper one day and 32 I think the second day. But foxes and wild cats were religiously controlled as martins would have been had they been around. Caper are magnificent birds. I shot one cock caper, a red grouse, and two black grouse over my Irish setter one day, but didn't get a ptarmigan to complete all four species of grouse because they are a mountain species.
We were lucky enough to see a cock capercaille . The keeper had had to rehome it as it had gone rogue and was terrorising cars on one of the local roads. As you say magnificent birds. He said he can remember his father ,who worked for the forestry commission, treading on the nests of the caper to prevent future damage to the pine saplings. How times have changed
- Location
- America's dairyland
The people that push this ideology of re wilding as you call it, they don't need agriculture, they have plenty of money to buy their food at grocery stores. A farm is a nostalgic scene to them, not something that produces anything worthwhile. In a sense they're right, the reintroduction of predators will push out free range livestock and move more livestock to confinement. Corn and soy farmers don't mind one bit if a pack of wolves moves onto their farms.