Planning a crop rotation

[Oat]

Why not use grass as a break crop?

It is certainly possible, but if there is an existing grassweed problem with ryegrass, it probably not a good idea. However, grass could actually help with blackgrass management

Or stubble turnips?

Again, its a possibility. But it all depends on all the other variable we don't know- is there a market/demand/grazing etc...

I'm not having a go, but it's easy to say grow osr or beans.

Yes, they can be easy to grow, hence why I suggested

I would suggest rotating your current cropping. Maybe something like winter wheat - grass 2-3years - Spring barley - winter oats - winter wheat.
Carrots could slot in instead of grass on certain fields.

Good suggestion, and would probably be cheaper and less effort than adding more broad-leaved crops. However, over reliance on grass-based crops could cause problems further down the line, if they don't exist already?

To the OP
Do you not have problems with barley volunteers in the wheat?

 

[Hampton]

It is certainly possible, but if there is an existing grassweed problem with ryegrass, it probably not a good idea. However, grass could actually help with blackgrass management
Again, its a possibility. But it all depends on all the other variable we don't know- is there a market/demand/grazing etc...
Yes, they can be easy to grow, hence why I suggested
Good suggestion, and would probably be cheaper and less effort than adding more broad-leaved crops. However, over reliance on grass-based crops could cause problems further down the line, if they don't exist already?

In my experience (and I come from an agronomy background), the worst farms for grassweeds are not mixed farms with grass in the rotation.

 

[Oat]

In my experience (and I come from an agronomy background), the worst farms for grassweeds are not mixed farms with grass in the rotation.

Good point. Plus we don't know enough about the fields, climate, local conditions, weed spectrum etc...

 

[Grass And Grain]

Carrot man might not be too keen with osr in the rotation. Sclerotinia?? I'd speak to him about that one.

 

[Grass And Grain]

Grass seems the natural break crop unless the grass is grown because of wet fields or terrain etc.

 

[Spud]

Look at what works, what doesn't, and what the farm needs. (ie for horses I guess you need some grass and oats, and some straw.
The carrots will need a 7yr rotation?

Our heavy land pretty much follows ww ww wbeans ww ww cover crop soats. We were continuous wheat but grassweeds dictated we change. Beans and oats direct drilled, usually fym pre oats to feed the cover crop. Strategic ploughing dictated by bgrass levels.

The lighter land is potatoes, wheat, w barley, sugar beet, s barley, w barley, cover, s beans, ww, wb, cover.
Much pre roots, more ploughing than on heavy land.

When are the carrots harvested? I'm guessing springtime?

How about carrots, maize, sbarley, grass grass w barley stubble turnips s oats extra sbarley if req

Let land out for carrots and maize.
Grass for hay and grazing
W barley plenty straw and entry for catch crop of stubble turnips for sheep
Oats for horses

Fodder beet and potatoes could be options to replace maize and carrots as required.

Good luck, the possibilities are endless.

PS I'd avoid osr!

 

[Hagri]

Carrot man might not be too keen with osr in the rotation. Sclerotinia?? I'd speak to him about that one.

Might be possible if you give a 4 year break between susceptible crops??

 

[Hagri]

Grass seems the natural break crop unless the grass is grown because of wet fields or terrain etc.

There's only one Moorish grass field that is wet over winter, get a cut of silage or hay off it in summer though. The rest are pretty dry. Some pastures are about 15 years old and may be put back into tillage for 2-3 years so grass would probably have to be included to compensate.

 

[Hagri]

Good advice Spud. Thanks

The carrots will need a 7yr rotation?

Yes that's right.

Beans and oats direct drilled,

By direct drill do you mean a form of no till or strip till?? I'd be interested in shifting that way in future.

How about carrots, maize, sbarley, grass grass w barley stubble turnips s oats extra sbarley if req

Why did you suggest maize for after the carrots? First mention of it here so I'm curious.

Fodder beet and potatoes could be options to replace maize and carrots as required.

There are sounds of the irish sugar beet industry getting back up and running so beet can be considered. It's also probably one of the more profitable crops here atm.

PS I'd avoid osr!

Why ?

 

[curlietailz]

I'd talk to an independant agronomist and get his opinion
Mine works out all my crop rotations ( although we are a fairly simple rotation. Wheat wheat barley WOSR)
How about joining a local benchmark group. You would learn a lot from other local farmers.

 

[curlietailz]

"By direct drill do you mean a form of no till or strip till?? I'd be interested in shifting that way in future."

You can drill OSR by sticking a Stocks seeder or other little air/dribble drill ontop of a Sumo or TopDown or some other shallow/min till cultivator.

Many of the OSR crops are established this way...

Just roll the hell out of it after drilling so you get seed/soil contact and try to minimise slug damage.

 

[Hagri]

"By direct drill do you mean a form of no till or strip till?? I'd be interested in shifting that way in future."

You can drill OSR by sticking a Stocks seeder or other little air/dribble drill ontop of a Sumo or TopDown or some other shallow/min till cultivator.

Many of the OSR crops are established this way...

Just roll the hell out of it after drilling so you get seed/soil contact and try to minimise slug damage.

I was looking into a 3m horsch joker and mini drill for cover crops. Can avail of a 60% grant on one so thanks its good to know it could do OSR too. I was asking that question in response to them saying they direct drill their beans and oats though.. with what you're saying, would it be possible for these crops?

 

[colhonk]

The main advantage of growing OSR is that you get a lovely crop of SLUGS from nowhere, and they will happily feed on your crop of carrots and barley and oats and everything else, plus you will have hours of fun spreading slug pellets every other week and finding out that they do not make much difference,happy OSR growing. Personally, looking at what you can grow, I would try to find something else wanted localy and keep off OSR.

 

[Spud]

Glad you found my ramblings useful!

By direct drill do you mean a form of no till or strip till?? I'd be interested in shifting that way in future.

For winter beans, (on heavier land) we run an old Bomford dynadrive over the field to chit volunteers, as soon as the bales are cleared, spray off late October and drill the beans with our Kockerling tine drill about 5" deep - it has some deeper legs in front to remove compaction.
Spring beans (on lighter land) tend to have a Kockerling sown cheap covercrop of oats and mustard over winter (use it for EFA's) then Kockerling drill the beans in spring.
For spring Oats - on the heavier land - again a kockerling sown cover crop preceeeds, with fym if available, usually barley mustard and vetch. Then the oats are direct drilled by a disc drill - theres a thread on here showing last years drilling by @Ryetecman 's Ma-Ag drill - the idea being minimal disturbance for bg control - the compaction having been removed by the Kockerlings tine bar while sowing the cover.

Why did you suggest maize for after the carrots? First mention of it here so I'm curious. -

One of my potato landlords has some light land that doesnt grow corn well. Last years potato field was preceded by carrots, then our spuds, straight in second week of October with Weterwolds grass, cut of silage this spring, sown with maize late may (the grass helps reduce blow) it will more than likely be followed by fodder beet, then maybe barley. Before the carrots, it was outdoor pigs for a couple of years.

There are sounds of the irish sugar beet industry getting back up and running so beet can be considered. It's also probably one of the more profitable crops here atm. Definitely an option - the beet tops could be grazed by sheep, before sowing spring barley.

Why ?[/QUOTE] See colhonk's post below. I find it a 12month, very demanding crop. Slugs, flea beetle, pigeons etc etc all attack it, then a bit of a storm can knock half of it out a week before harvest...leaving lots of slug fodder on the floor to hamper the following cereal. Doesn't fit with our other crops well either, physically or chemically.

The main advantage of growing OSR is that you get a lovely crop of SLUGS from nowhere, and they will happily feed on your crop of carrots and barley and oats and everything else, plus you will have hours of fun spreading slug pellets every other week and finding out that they do not make much difference,happy OSR growing. Personally, looking at what you can grow, I would try to find something else wanted localy and keep off OSR.