Planning Applications, PD and the like (General Chat)

Just thinking out loud.
Would I be better to go for full planning this time with a view to keeping PD rights up my sleeve for future
Now that is a very good question! Assuming you want the building you are applying for now and then 1000sqm of PD then you have to be very careful about your timescales as the Full Planning Permission my restrict your future PD rights, so this is how my boss just explained it would work in your favour.

1. Apply for full PP for your building.
2. At any time after this has been submitted (but before the 3 year build period has expired) apply for you PD buildings.
3. Ensure you build your PD buildings before starting work on the Full PP building.

The basis of this is that even if the councildoes restrict your PD rights as part of the full PP that does not come into force until you enact (start) that work. You can then buld your 1000sqm worth of PD buildings and that has no impact on the full PP building. Just remember to start that within the 3 years as renewing that permission would be much harder once the PD buildings were up.
 

holwellcourtfarm

Member
Livestock Farmer
Now that is a very good question! Assuming you want the building you are applying for now and then 1000sqm of PD then you have to be very careful about your timescales as the Full Planning Permission my restrict your future PD rights, so this is how my boss just explained it would work in your favour.

1. Apply for full PP for your building.
2. At any time after this has been submitted (but before the 3 year build period has expired) apply for you PD buildings.
3. Ensure you build your PD buildings before starting work on the Full PP building.

The basis of this is that even if the councildoes restrict your PD rights as part of the full PP that does not come into force until you enact (start) that work. You can then buld your 1000sqm worth of PD buildings and that has no impact on the full PP building. Just remember to start that within the 3 years as renewing that permission would be much harder once the PD buildings were up.
Sneaky, but legal. I like it:sneaky:
 
Sneaky, but legal. I like it:sneaky:
There is no point learning (and abiding) to the rules if you can't use them to your advantage. It works exactly the same on residential dwellings. Get full planning for a side extension knowing full well the council will impose restrictions on future PD extensions but before starting work apply for the rear extension under PD and then be able to build both!
 

Daniel Larn

Member
There is no point learning (and abiding) to the rules if you can't use them to your advantage. It works exactly the same on residential dwellings. Get full planning for a side extension knowing full well the council will impose restrictions on future PD extensions but before starting work apply for the rear extension under PD and then be able to build both!
This is very interesting, perhaps a contender for post of 2019 already?
 

onthehoof

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Cambs
As for the barn replacement we want to retain our pd allowance for use elsewhere.
Yes this was what I was thinking.
Perhaps I didn’t really explain myself very well, my thoughts were if I wanted to convert the proposed new barns to residential under class Q (not sure if class Q is the same as PD) say in 3 years time, then if I had built them using PD are the planners more likely to be more difficult because I put the barns up using PD in the first place.
Think I’m confusing myself now.:scratchhead:
I may have other existing barns to convert in future.
 
Yes this was what I was thinking.
Perhaps I didn’t really explain myself very well, my thoughts were if I wanted to convert the proposed new barns to residential under class Q (not sure if class Q is the same as PD) say in 3 years time, then if I had built them using PD are the planners more likely to be more difficult because I put the barns up using PD in the first place.
Think I’m confusing myself now.:scratchhead:
You won't be able to convert them under Class Q (Class Q is part of the GPDO and therefore generally known as Permitted Development) anytime soon. Paragraph Q1 reads:

Development is not permitted by Class Q if—
(a) the site was not used solely for an agricultural use as part of an established agricultural
unit—
(i) on 20th March 2013, or
(ii) in the case of a building which was in use before that date but was not in use on that
date, when it was last in use, or

(iii) in the case of a site which was brought into use after 20th March 2013, for a period
of at least 10 years before the date development under Class Q begins;
Part (iii) will stop yuo converting them for 10 years from when they are built.
 

holwellcourtfarm

Member
Livestock Farmer
Yes this was what I was thinking.
Perhaps I didn’t really explain myself very well, my thoughts were if I wanted to convert the proposed new barns to residential under class Q (not sure if class Q is the same as PD) say in 3 years time, then if I had built them using PD are the planners more likely to be more difficult because I put the barns up using PD in the first place.
Think I’m confusing myself now.:scratchhead:
I may have other existing barns to convert in future.
My understanding is that if you go for part Q within 10 years of erection they will deny you and force you to take it down. I could well be wrong through.
 

onthehoof

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Cambs
.... but the buildings that burnt down were there for 28 years and only having to replace because some loser got handy with a box of matches.If I put them back the same on the same foundations would that help.
The site has been a farmyard since 1880’s - is it the site or the buildings themselves which count.
 
.... but the buildings that burnt down were there for 28 years and only having to replace because some loser got handy with a box of matches.If I put them back the same on the same foundations would that help.
The site has been a farmyard since 1880’s
Unfortunately, they are new buildings. The main reason Class Q exists is to repurpose unused agricultural buildings. If you were to apply to rebuild them then you are claiming they are still required.
 

onthehoof

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Cambs
Putting up 2 new sheds to replace existing.
Do I need a separate application for each shed?
They will be virtually touching each other.
 
Putting up 2 new sheds to replace existing.
Do I need a separate application for each shed?
They will be virtually touching each other.
The short answer is No.

If they are going up under Permitted Development then as long as the combined area (including any new hardstanding) does not exceed your PD allowance then they can go in as one application.

If you are applying for full planning then again they can go in as one application.

The only need for separate applications is if one is under PD and the other is a full application.
 
After responding to several posts recently on particular planning queries which have descended into general chats I thought it might be good to have a place where we can discuss planning queries in general without hijacking other people's posts.

So feel free to post anything Planning/Permitted Development/Appeals/Enforcement related.

Help!
I have a small disused brick built farm building next to my cottage that is itself connected badly at right angle to a workshop building. I have applied to rebuild the farm building 1.5m away from the workshop( to alleviate the bad connection) and convert it into ancillary accommodation. The local planners have considered this a new dwelling( even though it is replacing an existing inadequate building?) and refused it as being a "new build" it is close in footprint to the existing cottage and doesn't fit with the local plan...as a "new build"!
To get over this,can I rebuild as is under permitted development ( perhaps making it slightly smaller to detach it from the workshop building?) and if so do I need planning permission to do this?
Any advise greatly appreciated as I feel I'm getting nowhere with the planners and am getting frustrated by the process!
 
Help!
I have a small disused brick built farm building next to my cottage that is itself connected badly at right angle to a workshop building. I have applied to rebuild the farm building 1.5m away from the workshop( to alleviate the bad connection) and convert it into ancillary accommodation. The local planners have considered this a new dwelling( even though it is replacing an existing inadequate building?) and refused it as being a "new build" it is close in footprint to the existing cottage and doesn't fit with the local plan...as a "new build"!
To get over this,can I rebuild as is under permitted development ( perhaps making it slightly smaller to detach it from the workshop building?) and if so do I need planning permission to do this?
Any advise greatly appreciated as I feel I'm getting nowhere with the planners and am getting frustrated by the process!

Have you actually made an application, if so do you have a reference number etc, I can take a look at the application and the delegated report. Feel free to PM me if you like.

Is the building within the residential curtilage of the cottage or on adjoining land. The residential curtilage is normally defined on the planning permission for the house but if it is older than say 60 years old it is unlikely this information exists in which case it is subjective and open to interpretation? If the building is within the curtilage then my suggestion would be to rebuild it where you want but cover yourself by applying for a Lawful Development Certificate outlining the porposal. Apply for it as an ancillary outbuilding under Class E. Ancillary outbuildings within the residential curtilage can be used as annexed accomodation without any change of use.

If it is outside of the residential curtilage then you will need to apply for full planning to rebuild it as a farm building (you may be able to do this under PD if calssed as a farm building) but anything outside of the residential curtilage can not be classed as ancillary to the house and therefore be annexed accomodation.

You could look at a change of use of the buildings and land surrounding them to extend the residential curtilage, thus making the buildings avaialble for annexed accomodation.
 

onthehoof

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Cambs
The short answer is No.

If they are going up under Permitted Development then as long as the combined area (including any new hardstanding) does not exceed your PD allowance then they can go in as one application.

If you are applying for full planning then again they can go in as one application.

The only need for separate applications is if one is under PD and the other is a full application.
That’s good but it doesn’t allow on the Online application to do two buildings at once
You can put measurements in the boxes for one building but you cannot add measurements for another
Doing under PD
 

onthehoof

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Cambs
What is the distance between the two buildings? Could you put it in as one building in terms of area
Was going to have a twin span building 100ft x 100ft which is just under 1000sq m but now thinking 2 separate buildings 100ft x 50ft with 10 ft passage in between, unfortunately this would take area including passage to over 1000sqm
(the passage would just be existing surface no new hardcore or concrete)
 
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