Planning Applications, PD and the like (General Chat)

[George from SJM Planning]

The last PD I did was in 2014 for the 100x50, nothings been built or applied for since so I should be ok then I think !.

Should be ok then, as all Agricultural PD now requires Prior Approval it would be prudent to include a covering letter giving basic justification, for example, my shed holds 1000 small bales and last year I needed space for 1200 and this year I expect the same problem. Doesn't need to be any more complicated than that but most councils are requiring it now rather than letting new structures to go up carté blanché.

 

[SamASP]

Hi, I have a question about an aspect of PD called 'agricultural justification'. For a time now I have been running a small textile business (I am a carpenter full time) which I would like to expand. I have been looking to buy 20-30 acres to keep a small flock of sheep on for their fleeces, but am unsure if I would need to have been farming them for a few years before applying for PD to erect a barn, or if I can buy the land and erect a barn before hand - in short what is the threshold that has to be reached in order for the PD to be justified?

I am based in Devon, and the land I am looking at is not in a national park or an area of outstanding natural beauty.

 

[George from SJM Planning]

Hi, I have a question about an aspect of PD called 'agricultural justification'. For a time now I have been running a small textile business (I am a carpenter full time) which I would like to expand. I have been looking to buy 20-30 acres to keep a small flock of sheep on for their fleeces, but am unsure if I would need to have been farming them for a few years before applying for PD to erect a barn, or if I can buy the land and erect a barn before hand - in short what is the threshold that has to be reached in order for the PD to be justified?

I am based in Devon, and the land I am looking at is not in a national park or an area of outstanding natural beauty.

You don't need to have been farming the land for any length of time to be able to be able to justify the barn, on 20-30ac I would suggest the storage of cropped forage and the lambing of the sheep would be sufficient providing no other buildings are part of the holding. Be aware though if you put anything in the barn in relation to your textile business then you would be in contrvention of the PD provisions and you would be required to remove the building. If you intend to use the building as a dual purpose building (both agriculture and your textile business) I would suggest a full planning application where you can be open and honest but you can support the application with the fallback of the PD.

 

[SamASP]

Hi Georgie

Thank you for your advice, it answered my question nicely. Do you work in the Devon area? It would be helpful for me to have a professional assess the suitability of the land I am looking at for PD as, although the guidelines seem fairly straightforward, I wouldn't like to miss anything. If you could send me your email address it would be great to discuss fees/how to move this forward.

 

[George from SJM Planning]

Hi Georgie

Thank you for your advice, it answered my question nicely. Do you work in the Devon area? It would be helpful for me to have a professional assess the suitability of the land I am looking at for PD as, although the guidelines seem fairly straightforward, I wouldn't like to miss anything. If you could send me your email address it would be great to discuss fees/how to move this forward.

We are happy to look at work nationwide, most of the time we don't need to visit site or physically meet the case officers, even for sites on our doorstep. Please feel free to email me at [email protected]

 

[Chainsawwill]

I’m looking at a agricultural timber framed barn at the moment in Bedfordshire and the frame is structurally sound and quite substantial although there is very little to none real foundations. The whole frame is resting on timber bearers, part of which is on a 4 inch thick slab. The slab extends two thirds or the buildings footprint. Is it possible to convert under class q without proper foundations and could foundations be introduced in sections without damaging the timber framed structure . Could these foundations come under the scope of “internal works” and all work carried out from the inside while the building is erected still. I know it would be a pain but possible. It also seems the LA want a structural engineers report before they will make a decision on the PD. Is this a normal thing to provide.

Thanks

 

[George from SJM Planning]

I’m looking at a agricultural timber framed barn at the moment in Bedfordshire and the frame is structurally sound and quite substantial although there is very little to none real foundations. The whole frame is resting on timber bearers, part of which is on a 4 inch thick slab. The slab extends two thirds or the buildings footprint. Is it possible to convert under class q without proper foundations and could foundations be introduced in sections without damaging the timber framed structure . Could these foundations come under the scope of “internal works” and all work carried out from the inside while the building is erected still. I know it would be a pain but possible. It also seems the LA want a structural engineers report before they will make a decision on the PD. Is this a normal thing to provide.

Thanks

In this case I would expect the the LPA to ask for a structural engineers report; the building must be structurally sound for conversion to qualify for Class Q. The need to add any kind of foundations would therefore mean it was not suitable for Class Q.

 

[Farmer1001]

I’m looking at a agricultural timber framed barn at the moment in Bedfordshire and the frame is structurally sound and quite substantial although there is very little to none real foundations. The whole frame is resting on timber bearers, part of which is on a 4 inch thick slab. The slab extends two thirds or the buildings footprint. Is it possible to convert under class q without proper foundations and could foundations be introduced in sections without damaging the timber framed structure . Could these foundations come under the scope of “internal works” and all work carried out from the inside while the building is erected still. I know it would be a pain but possible. It also seems the LA want a structural engineers report before they will make a decision on the PD. Is this a normal thing to provide.

Thanks

We have obtained Q Class approval for another barn without any foundations other than the slab it sat on, we then went for full PP for a new dwelling on the same footprint, approval was straight forward. Q class is a not always the end solution, rather a decent stepping stone.

 

[George from SJM Planning]

We have obtained Q Class approval for another barn without any foundations other than the slab it sat on, we then went for full PP for a new dwelling on the same footprint, approval was straight forward. Q class is a not always the end solution, rather a decent stepping stone.

Totally agree, if you can get Class Q and it would be a PITA to build then use the Class Q as justification for a Full Planning application.

This is one we used that route for Farming Forum - Agricultrual Building Conversion

 

[Chainsawwill]

Could you in theory do structural work to improve an existing agricultural barn BEFORE you apply for class Q.

 

[George from SJM Planning]

Could you in theory do structural work to improve an existing agricultural barn BEFORE you apply for class Q.

You could but you would need to justify the work as necessary for its use as an agricultural building but that would be risky.

 

[TheTallGuy]

Could you in theory do structural work to improve an existing agricultural barn BEFORE you apply for class Q.

Surely you mean the works that were done some years ago...

 

[George from SJM Planning]

Surely you mean the works that were done some years ago...

No comment [emoji6]

 

[teslacoils]

Planning needed for planting hedges? The roadside hedges on my farm were all ripped out in the 60s making it very "open plan" here. I'd like to plant some, or even build a low wall, to reduce the wandering folk from wandering where I don't want them. Problems? I know where the highway boundary is.

 

[SJM]

Maxed out our permitted development allocation last year and hoping to apply again once the two years are up. Do the two years until you can apply again go from the application date, the validation date or the decision date of the previous PD? .. Quite a range in time as last one got held up for a couple of months

 

[George from SJM Planning]

Maxed out our permitted development allocation last year and hoping to apply again once the two years are up. Do the two years until you can apply again go from the application date, the validation date or the decision date of the previous PD? .. Quite a range in time as last one got held up for a couple of months

The GPDO says "has been provided within the past 2 years" so I would say it is 2 years from the completion of the final PD.
If time is of the essence and you believe it would normally be PD is it not an option to do it under full planning?

 

[SJM]

The GPDO says "has been provided within the past 2 years" so I would say it is 2 years from the completion of the final PD.
If time is of the essence and you believe it would normally be PD is it not an option to do it under full planning?

Thanks that’s great. Yes going with full planning is an option but will probably wait for the pd as not in a massive rush

 

[George from SJM Planning]

So. I've been thinking so bare with me!

This thread has now been going over two years, over 1000 posts and nearly 100k views. I am on the forum at least once a day looking to help those with planning queries and I find them all over the forum. Would the powers that be be adverse to adding a Planning sub-foum where people can create threads with their questions or concerns; somewhere they are all kept together in one place and those of us that want to help can find them easier. That was the idea of this thread but it has become too big to be an effective resource and questions are being repeated.

Also, I feel I should be posting as George from SJM Planning now as most of my activity on here is based on my job as a Planning Consultant rather than as the smallholder I started off as. Can I change my username so my history continues on or do I need to create a new profile.

I'd appreciate everyones thoughts.

 

[Kidds]

Your input to the forum has been very valuable to me and I am sure many others too. I have learned a great deal, not only from your input but also from the discussions generated.
A separate forum or sub forum should work.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

So. I've been thinking so bare with me!

This thread has now been going over two years, over 1000 posts and nearly 100k views. I am on the forum at least once a day looking to help those with planning queries and I find them all over the forum. Would the powers that be be adverse to adding a Planning sub-foum where people can create threads with their questions or concerns; somewhere they are all kept together in one place and those of us that want to help can find them easier. That was the idea of this thread but it has become too big to be an effective resource and questions are being repeated.

Also, I feel I should be posting as George from SJM Planning now as most of my activity on here is based on my job as a Planning Consultant rather than as the smallholder I started off as. Can I change my username so my history continues on or do I need to create a new profile.

I'd appreciate everyones thoughts.

What do you think @Clive and @Chris F ?

It makes sense to me.