Planning Applications, PD and the like (General Chat)

[Kidds]

Whereas another LPA in the same county is emailing the site notices and asking the applicants (where possible) to errect them if it can be done without non-essential travel. They are then requesting a photograph proving it has been displayed.

They did that here before the virus came along

 

[stablegirl]

Ive got an application in and they have posted out the signs and want them up with the date of when they went up and a picture.

 

[stablegirl]

I would like to put a new access road into the farm at some point.

It would need to take artic wagons, and has been requested by a neighbour in a previous planning application.

There is an existing gate there, although i want the access road to technically come out of the field next door.

Is this likely to be a planning battle or plain sailing?

Should i be trying to put in a field gate first?

Should i remove topsoil and make a track to start with and use that a bit?

 

[dannewhouse]

I have the same but not bothered with planning, mines an existing gate, ripped a wall out so can get into field I want, then created a muddy track (fenced off against an existing boundary) just on with stoneing up but it's now existing to me.
I think You're supposed to have 20m sight line of the road each way(new entrance, yours could be classed existing), would it be better comeing out on the straight section of main road, roughly parralel to existing lane, no awkward field shapes to fert then!

 

[TheTallGuy]

I would like to put a new access road into the farm at some point.

It would need to take artic wagons, and has been requested by a neighbour in a previous planning application.

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There is an existing gate there, although i want the access road to technically come out of the field next door.

Is this likely to be a planning battle or plain sailing?

Should i be trying to put in a field gate first?

Should i remove topsoil and make a track to start with and use that a bit?

Putting a gate in is unlikely to help the application because anyone can look on street view & see that it's new, again lifting the topsoil will show up on Google maps etc & since that's usually considered to be an engineering operation you could be in for a slapped wrist. To make your application as easy as possible to get passed you really need to have a strong justification for the new access & offer a route that has minimal impact. You proposed route looks to be needlessly disruptive - the obvious route would be to follow the existing hedge line & approach the yard from the rear; the alternative would be to use the existing road as far as the field corner & then just a short section of new road to the yard.

 

[George from SJM Planning]

Putting a gate in is unlikely to help the application because anyone can look on street view & see that it's new, again lifting the topsoil will show up on Google maps etc & since that's usually considered to be an engineering operation you could be in for a slapped wrist. To make your application as easy as possible to get passed you really need to have a strong justification for the new access & offer a route that has minimal impact. You proposed route looks to be needlessly disruptive - the obvious route would be to follow the existing hedge line & approach the yard from the rear; the alternative would be to use the existing road as far as the field corner & then just a short section of new road to the yard.

I would concur with this in the main but it all depends on whether the road is a classified road. This doesn't have to be and A Road or a B Road. If is then you will need planning permission for the first 25m from the highways edge in which case you would be better off using the existing entrance. It is usually easy to check with the council if the road is classified or not.

 

[badger nadgers]

I would advise anyone considering Class Q's to look into it soon as when the country gets back to normal I wouldn't be surprised if the GPDO isn't revised and Class Q is removed

What revisions do you anticipate they will make to GPDO?

My ground is in a National Park (although I live in town just outside it) and it seems almost as if they can come up with any excuse to kaibosh things.

I had a PD/PN for a small general purpose fodder & equipment shed turned down because it was "too isolated" at 200m away from other buildings on the only near level ground tucked away behind a hill and at the end of a field track - they wanted it even closer! They suggested they would consider another location if the application was withdrawn so the agent decided to do so in good faith. Managed to get them to waive the fee for another site visit where they suggested a site immediately after the entrance gate which would have required a 90 degree entrance on a rising slope and substantial excavation of the hill requiring a full topgraphical survey at about £1000 but with no quarantee of success was too much of a punt for me. Was told on site we got the reapplication free but they changed their mind back at the office because it was PD. Can't appeal because there isn't a live application. It all seems highly subjective.

They don't seem to be consistent on what I assume is assessing visual impact. On the other side of the hill and road is a converted farm where they moved in, got a few sheep and have built under PP a shed next to it that appears to be taller and larger in area than the main buildings and which being at the bottom of the valley can be seen from all around. Got three quarters of a million to buy a converted farm and got a few pets? Sure, have a stonking big stand-out shed visible for miles. Run a larger flock of sheep and can't afford to live up there? Ooh no you can't have a 60x40 hidden away out of sight.

They seem to be a law unto themselves.

 

[George from SJM Planning]

What revisions do you anticipate they will make to GPDO?

My ground is in a National Park (although I live in town just outside it) and it seems almost as if they can come up with any excuse to kaibosh things.

I had a PD/PN for a small general purpose fodder & equipment shed turned down because it was "too isolated" at 200m away from other buildings on the only near level ground tucked away behind a hill and at the end of a field track - they wanted it even closer! They suggested they would consider another location if the application was withdrawn so the agent decided to do so in good faith. Managed to get them to waive the fee for another site visit where they suggested a site immediately after the entrance gate which would have required a 90 degree entrance on a rising slope and substantial excavation of the hill requiring a full topgraphical survey at about £1000 with no quarantee of success and which was too much of a punt for me. Was told on site we got the reapplication free but they changed their mind back at the office because it was PD. Can't appeal because there isn't a live application. It all seems highly subjective.

They don't seem to be consistent on what I assume is assessing visual impact. On the other side of the hill and road is a converted farm where they moved in, got a few sheep and have built under PP a shed next to it that appears to be taller and larger in area than the main buildings and which being at the bottom of the valley can be seen from all around. Got three quarters of a million to buy a converted farm and got a few pets? Sure, have a stonking big stand-out shed. Run a larger flock of sheep and can't afford to live up there? Ooh no you can't have a 60x40 hidden away out of sight.

They seem to be a law unto themselves.

Unfortunately the National Parks are very protected in planning policy and therefore it can seem like they do what they want. Visual impact is a very subjective term but if you have a local example of a buliding errected in what you believe to be a more imposing position then photograph it (from public rights of way only) and use that as justification in your application. You may need to spend out £1000's to justify your case though, when visual impact is concerned topo surveys, CGI's and photo montages are the only way of really showing what impact it will have.

In terms of changes to the GPDO, I don't think there will be many changes to the agricultural PD rights other than possibly adding the need for a Phase 1 Habitat Survey for certain developments (new buildings, excavations etc) as this is becoming a hot topic in planning in general. I think the main change will be the removal of some of the change of use classes and I think Class Q will be one of those high on the list to go. When it was first introduced I don't think they intended for it to be so widely used; it is now a case where some farmers saw the foresight and built a hay barn 10 years ago hedging their bets that Class Q would still be around and they are now converting them to houses.

 

[George from SJM Planning]

Thank you to all those that are donating to FCN via the link below, I hope my advice helps more than those asking the questions.
????????

 

[badger nadgers]

Unfortunately the National Parks are very protected in planning policy and therefore it can seem like they do what they want. Visual impact is a very subjective term but if you have a local example of a buliding errected in what you believe to be a more imposing position then photograph it (from public rights of way only) and use that as justification in your application. You may need to spend out £1000's to justify your case though, when visual impact is concerned topo surveys, CGI's and photo montages are the only way of really showing what impact it will have.

Thanks George. Donation happily made, keep up the good work!

 

[stablegirl]

There is a power line in the way of a potential future PD site, it supplies the farm and a dozen houses.

Whats the deal with getting them moved, do you need to do it before planning?

 

[Smith31]

There is a power line in the way of a potential future PD site, it supplies the farm and a dozen houses.

Whats the deal with getting them moved, do you need to do it before planning?

I would get a price from the power company first, before even putting the pd in

Make sure you're sitting down when the quote email from the power company arrives.

 

[dannewhouse]

Local to me had electric board out to a single plot that they have started building direct under power line, planning was passed as it's nothing to do with them.
Electric man said board would be paying as they can't stop someone doing something. He did say they would sting him when he wants a connection.
Personally if you're looking longer term I would get the planning and then approach electric board, he said they prefer that way and were annoyed that this guy thinks he should jump the queue because he's started. This is a house plot and the existing line is nothing to do with him.

I had the meeting because they wanted to divert it overhead ovver our land, I said no don't want all the poles and stays get it underground. If it's your land you won't have much argument about extra poles and stays. (Get another family member to act as land owner to argue points)

 

[George from SJM Planning]

Local to me had electric board out to a single plot that they have started building direct under power line, planning was passed as it's nothing to do with them.
Electric man said board would be paying as they can't stop someone doing something. He did say they would sting him when he wants a connection.
Personally if you're looking longer term I would get the planning and then approach electric board, he said they prefer that way and were annoyed that this guy thinks he should jump the queue because he's started. This is a house plot and the existing line is nothing to do with him.

I had the meeting because they wanted to divert it overhead ovver our land, I said no don't want all the poles and stays get it underground. If it's your land you won't have much argument about extra poles and stays. (Get another family member to act as land owner to argue points)

As @dannewhouse says the position of the electricity pole is not a planning issue, so they won't take it into account when determining the application. It is also better to go to the electricity company with the planning permission in hand. I would advise to shop around for connections as we found that third parties can substantially undercut the main power companies.

 

[Nearly]

I would get a price from the power company first, before even putting the pd in

Make sure you're sitting down when the quote email from the power company arrives.

I'm guessing £18k. Every quote I've seen has been that.

 

[Smith31]

I'm guessing £18k. Every quote I've seen has been that.

Certainly not cheap, they know how to charge

 

[ploughman1963]

I received planning approval for 2 grain bins on a prior notice in August 18. I also received approval on a full planning application on a livestock/storage shed in September 18 on a separate site (but same holding number). What is the soonest I can apply for a storage bulding under prior notice application on the site where the two grain bins are located?
Thanks

 

[George from SJM Planning]

I received planning approval for 2 grain bins on a prior notice in August 18. I also received approval on a full planning application on a livestock/storage shed in September 18 on a separate site (but same holding number). What is the soonest I can apply for a storage bulding under prior notice application on the site where the two grain bins are located?
Thanks

If your grain bins do not total 1000sqm in external area then you can apply now for anything up to the remainder; for example if your grain stores totaled 500sqm then you can apply for a shed of 500sqm. Otherwise, I believe you will need to wait 3 years from Septmember '18. I don't hve the GPDO to hand to check but I think it is 3 years. BUT; check the conditions in your full planning permission as they may have placed further restrctions or timescales on.

 

[ploughman1963]

If your grain bins do not total 1000sqm in external area then you can apply now for anything up to the remainder; for example if your grain stores totaled 500sqm then you can apply for a shed of 500sqm. Otherwise, I believe you will need to wait 3 years from Septmember '18. I don't hve the GPDO to hand to check but I think it is 3 years. BUT; check the conditions in your full planning permission as they may have placed further restrctions or timescales on.

Rough calculation tells me my bins account for 100m2 (2 x 8m diameter) of floor space leaving me 900m2? Proposed building is roughly 480m2. Full planning on the other site doesnt affect PD on this site?

 

[George from SJM Planning]

Rough calculation tells me my bins account for 100m2 (2 x 8m diameter) of floor space leaving me 900m2? Proposed building is roughly 480m2. Full planning on the other site doesnt affect PD on this site?

Based in that information then you have plenty of allowance for the new shed. Did you include any new hardstsnding in either calculation as that will need to be taken into account.
The permission on the other site may affect it if a condition is written relating to the holding but not if it is written relating to the site. Find a copy of the decision notice and read it carefully. Conditions trip people up all the time. If in doubt send me a copy of the decision notice and I'll have a quick read.