Steevo
Member
- Location
- Gloucestershire
Planning Applications, PD and the like (General Chat)
- Thread starter George from SJM Planning
- Start date
1000sqm every 3 (off the top of my head) years.
Tarw Coch
Member
- Location
- Bottom of Wats Dyke
Unless it’s changed it was every 2 years
Ok, I haven't got my GPDO to hand
- Location
- Yorks
Does all permitted development require prior approval.
I'm sure I read a government advice note a few weeks back about permitted development for farmers, and it said something along the lines of 'you may sometimes need to submit your plans to the local authority for prior approval '
So if my memory serves me correctly, then what does that mean? Do we have to get prior approval? How do we know we need to get prior approval?
Or have I mis-remembered or misunderstood?
Thanks guys.
I'm sure I read a government advice note a few weeks back about permitted development for farmers, and it said something along the lines of 'you may sometimes need to submit your plans to the local authority for prior approval '
So if my memory serves me correctly, then what does that mean? Do we have to get prior approval? How do we know we need to get prior approval?
Or have I mis-remembered or misunderstood?
Thanks guys.
Prior Approval is required (on holdings over 5Ha) for;
(a) the erection, extension or alteration of a building;
(b) the formation or alteration of a private way;
(c) the carrying out of excavations or the deposit of waste material (where the relevant area,
as defined in paragraph D.1(4) of this Part, exceeds 0.5 hectares); or
(d) the placing or assembly of a tank in any waters
- Location
- Yorks
Thank you George.
I think I've maybe been getting confused between the need for a determination as to wheather prior approval is required, and prior approval itself. Oh I don't know, I'm a bit confused!
That's the page....
https://www.gov.uk/planning-permissions-for-farms/permitted-development
Second paragraph of page 2 of the pdf reads:-
local planning authorities may require their prior approval to be obtained for details of new
buildings, significant extensions and alterations (or in National Parks and some adjoining areas -
which are known in the General Permitted Development Order as Article 1(6) land - all
extensions and alterations), farm roads, and certain excavations and waste deposits (see
paragraphs E12 to E36).
...maybe it's out of date information.
I think I've maybe been getting confused between the need for a determination as to wheather prior approval is required, and prior approval itself. Oh I don't know, I'm a bit confused!
That's the page....
https://www.gov.uk/planning-permissions-for-farms/permitted-development
Second paragraph of page 2 of the pdf reads:-
local planning authorities may require their prior approval to be obtained for details of new
buildings, significant extensions and alterations (or in National Parks and some adjoining areas -
which are known in the General Permitted Development Order as Article 1(6) land - all
extensions and alterations), farm roads, and certain excavations and waste deposits (see
paragraphs E12 to E36).
...maybe it's out of date information.
So for any works defined in my earlier post (and your post) you need to seek prior approval. Once the application is received by the Local Authority then they will assess whether they need to consider the proposal. You may get a letter back saying "Prior Approval Not Required" in which case you can carry on. If you don't hear anything or they tell you Prior Approval is required then it will be determined similar to a planning application.
- Location
- Yorks
Ah right, it's making sense now. So it's the slight difference between the initial requirement to seek the decision as to whether prior approval is needed, vs the need to get prior approval (if LA say prior approval is needed).
Got it. Apologies, my brain's a bit slow sometimes.
Got it. Apologies, my brain's a bit slow sometimes.
How much
Member
- Location
- North East
I am looking to do something with a former farmstead comprising of around 3 acres a that has a former house now semi derelict but still intact with a roof and working power supply (but i'm told no longer considered a dwelling in planning terms) because a new home was built to replace it 20 years ago and that replacement is adjacent to the farmstead in what is considered open countryside. (The permission for the new one was in leu of the old house), also there are 2 sheds one a block work one approx 10x13m and one timber and corrugated steel approx. 20x20m both solid sided and usable but not really viable for commercial use .
Ideally I would like to knock all 3 down and put 3 modest steel portal frame buildings of around 15m square each in there place to let out . These could be just about done on the existing building footprints but repositioning them a by moving each by a few meters and backing them up toward a motorway embankment that is adjacent would make a better job that would still leave around 1 acre of the land that is just a paddock and I have no plans for as yet.
Obviously this is FP territory not PD , access would not appear to be problem road wise but change of use to commercial /storage in the open countryside , sustainability etc could well be an issue for getting permission for new buildings , and or moving them a few M
Is there any brown field development criteria that may help convert former farmsteads to commercial use that may be beneficial to this use in this instance
Ideally I would like to knock all 3 down and put 3 modest steel portal frame buildings of around 15m square each in there place to let out . These could be just about done on the existing building footprints but repositioning them a by moving each by a few meters and backing them up toward a motorway embankment that is adjacent would make a better job that would still leave around 1 acre of the land that is just a paddock and I have no plans for as yet.
Obviously this is FP territory not PD , access would not appear to be problem road wise but change of use to commercial /storage in the open countryside , sustainability etc could well be an issue for getting permission for new buildings , and or moving them a few M
Is there any brown field development criteria that may help convert former farmsteads to commercial use that may be beneficial to this use in this instance
There are certainly options available out there for you
It would most probably be classed as Previously Developed Land and most council's support alternative commercial uses in the countryside. More than happy to take a look if you like.
How much
Member
- Location
- North East
Thanks for that i may well do that in the new year
dannewhouse
Member
- Location
- huddersfield
Can you have a quick look at this application and throw up your concerns and how to overcome them.
It's for a farm house as the existing house is owned by other family members out of farming.
All opinions/advice appreciated.
Thanks Dan.
The main points they are throwing up are:
Speed survey to determine what sightlines I need(change over 40/30)
Turning area and wide entrance swept path analysis for bin lorry.
The size of dwelling
The location, being at the top of the hill and away from the farm buildings, I don't want to encase the house with buildings in years to come!
First 2 I'm pretty happy I can satisfy them 3 and 4th may need assistance
It's for a farm house as the existing house is owned by other family members out of farming.
All opinions/advice appreciated.
Thanks Dan.
The main points they are throwing up are:
Speed survey to determine what sightlines I need(change over 40/30)
Turning area and wide entrance swept path analysis for bin lorry.
The size of dwelling
The location, being at the top of the hill and away from the farm buildings, I don't want to encase the house with buildings in years to come!
First 2 I'm pretty happy I can satisfy them 3 and 4th may need assistance
Planning application details | Kirklees Council
Delivering information for individuals, businesses and organisations about this area in the Yorkshire Pennines area of England.
www.kirklees.gov.uk
Last edited:
I haven't looked at the documentation yet but my initial thoughts ar that you need a transport consultant to argue points one and two. Unless you have the demonstrable knowledge to produce swept path analysis and speed survey results and analysis then anything you submit will be taken with a pinch of salt.Can you have a quick look at this application and throw up your concerns and how to overcome them.
It's for a farm house as the existing house is owned by other family members out of farming.
All opinions/advice appreciated.
Thanks Dan.
The main points they are throwing up are:
Speed survey to determine what sightlines I need(change over 40/30)
Turning area and wide entrance swept path analysis for bin lorry.
The size of dwelling
The location, being at the top of the hill and away from the farm buildings, I don't want to encase the house with buildings in years to come!
First 2 I'm pretty happy I can satisfy them 3 and 4th may need assistance
Planning application details | Kirklees Council
Delivering information for individuals, businesses and organisations about this area in the Yorkshire Pennines area of England.www.kirklees.gov.uk
As for the size; as it is for a farmworker then it must befit a farmworkers salary, so on your wages you could only afford a 2 bed in the next town then they wouldn't be keen to allow you to build a 4 bed on the farm.
As for the location, if it is away from the farm buildings then if I was the case officer I would be saying that you might as well live in the next village, you are still not 'on site' for the animal health reasons that you presumably are citing for the need to reside there.
I will read the application but it's difficult on my phone.
Nearly
Member
- Location
- North of York
Is there any reason why a 'farm worker' can't be an 'essential worker' who happens to be a partner in the business and draw some actual real money?
Neighbour to me has 4 kids and has got approval for 4 bed house.
Do we have to live in a slum?
dannewhouse
Member
- Location
- huddersfield
Although it's farm worker, this will be the key farm house.
Farm is my business but I still live with parents (on farm) farm is nothing to do with them.
House is to be 160m away, I still class that as I can bob out walk dog and look around before bed, having to jump in car just stops this! 2 local villages, 1 no chance of a suitable house, there mainly small with no parking! Other is too far away really. I had read in farmers guardian someone who got planning along a track in a field because that was only land they owned, rest rented.
Business isn't showing as much profit as it perhaps should as I have put 2 sheds up in 5 years, we haven't got them down as an asset as the business doesn't own the land. (27k per year average last 3 years though) also need to be claiming fiance wage, she works on her parents dairy farm. (And helps me)
I have the software to do the swept path analysis. Don't for the speed survey, my 2 arguments for this, why don't we just meet the regulation for 40mph and be done? And the entrance is existing so only needs widening as per swept path analysis (I want it easier for artics than it is at moment any way)
Farm is my business but I still live with parents (on farm) farm is nothing to do with them.
House is to be 160m away, I still class that as I can bob out walk dog and look around before bed, having to jump in car just stops this! 2 local villages, 1 no chance of a suitable house, there mainly small with no parking! Other is too far away really. I had read in farmers guardian someone who got planning along a track in a field because that was only land they owned, rest rented.
Business isn't showing as much profit as it perhaps should as I have put 2 sheds up in 5 years, we haven't got them down as an asset as the business doesn't own the land. (27k per year average last 3 years though) also need to be claiming fiance wage, she works on her parents dairy farm. (And helps me)
I have the software to do the swept path analysis. Don't for the speed survey, my 2 arguments for this, why don't we just meet the regulation for 40mph and be done? And the entrance is existing so only needs widening as per swept path analysis (I want it easier for artics than it is at moment any way)
That wasn't what I was suggesting, an AOC must be financially viable for the farm, both the build and the maintenance, if this is beholden to an individual then it must be a reflection of their earnings. That is why they ask for a financial test for AOC's.Is there any reason why a 'farm worker' can't be an 'essential worker' who happens to be a partner in the business and draw some actual real money?
Neighbour to me has 4 kids and has got approval for 4 bed house.
Do we have to live in a slum?
Ok, so I can see a problem for the planners. The farm has a house for the farm worker but it is the choice for the occupants not to farm or move out.
Now before you bite my head off, this is not a view I share, I understand generational farming, planning law doesn't.
There are provisions for generational sub dwellings but that would require a transition between the older and younger generation in terms of ownership and operational activity.
As for alternative accommodation, I would suggest putting together a list of alternative properties within the area that are on the market or recently sold and why they are unsuitable.
New houses in the countryside are the most strictly restricted development and you must have a watertight application.
- Location
- South Wales UK
Too many abuse/ abused the system.
Years later try to get agri tie lifted and sell at substantial market difference.
Years later try to get agri tie lifted and sell at substantial market difference.