Plastic free farming - somebody needs to do something.

[Farmer Roy]

The stuff we use is thicker than stokboard, probably 20mm. But they do various sizes I think.
Not sure on retail prices as we take a lot of 2nds because we can use them. Doesnt expand like stokboard in heat but it's less flexible.
Use it for all sorts, even cut bits to replace broken Yorkshire boarding.
Work well for us as its local and is essentially infinitely recyclable.

great idea, but am just wondering how it stands up to UV & weathering ?

 

[Kiwi Pete]

That might be OK in a dry climate, around here at the minute even the sheep are cutting the ground to sh!t. Cattle would need fitted with floats, and raincoats.

Absolutely, the heavier the animal the greater the overall impact of its life becomes, in general terms.

Cattle stop fitting our environment and climate at about 520kgs liveweight, which is consquentially "why" you don't see dairy cattle bigger than that down here, and 450kg is even more effective.

Thus they do not need to be supplied with aids to remain afloat, nor do the farmers that keep cattle.
The ones starting engines daily to feed the cattle make considerably lower returns per kg of output than the ones that do not, which lead me to the conclusion that simple decisions greatly affect outcomes.

I'm just keen to find out who makes the decisions and what that decisionmaking process is, that's the only reason I ask questions about "who, why".

I can only conclude that supermarkets make these decisions?
If so it is the supermarket that's largely responsible for the single-use plastic problem they create via those decisions?

 

[Samcowman]

Just catching up here. Plastic is a problem which can be reduced with a few simple management tweaks and industry changes.
With regards to having to have animals on your farm all year round, there is no need to. There is already a system in place in the UK where hill farmers send their sheep away on tack for the winter or part of to somewhere which is more suited to having them.
With cattle it is more tricky due to TB considerations but could be done locally. I would love to be able to send the cows away for the winter and bring them home for calving.
Finishing cattle is a harder one but also doable with some sideways thinking.
If silage sheets were more expensive there would be a lot more getting reused for future years rather than thrown away.
Fertiliser and seed bags are a big problem that needs sorting. I can’t see the problem with reusing seed bags but there needs to be an incentive from the rest of the supply chain to send them back. Like a deposit scheme!!

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Just catching up here. Plastic is a problem which can be reduced with a few simple management tweaks and industry changes.
With regards to having to have animals on your farm all year round, there is no need to. There is already a system in place in the UK where hill farmers send their sheep away on tack for the winter or part of to somewhere which is more suited to having them.
With cattle it is more tricky due to TB considerations but could be done locally. I would love to be able to send the cows away for the winter and bring them home for calving.
Finishing cattle is a harder one but also doable with some sideways thinking.
If silage sheets were more expensive there would be a lot more getting reused for future years rather than thrown away.
Fertiliser and seed bags are a big problem that needs sorting. I can’t see the problem with reusing seed bags but there needs to be an incentive from the rest of the supply chain to send them back. Like a deposit scheme!!

I see far more single-use plastic lying around the countryside as baleage wrap than just about anything else, a few spray packs but these are often upcycled.. as weights for holding silage sheets down, rather than tyres on top!

Bulk fertiliser reduces or eliminates the bag problem, and increases safety (to an extent) at the same time.
There's about a $20 bagging charge here which is in some cases refunded upon return; however reusing the bulk bags also increases the H&S risk, so some fert outlets don't want them back for reuse, merely to recycle.

Again, it's systemic, why do you need seed, spray, feed, fertiliser in plastic containers, if at all?
Most all of these things can quite simply be done without, let alone the plastic .

We may critically assess why Mr Bean painted his house with a firecracker and wrapped his environment in paper, f**k knows but it's funny to watch.

Why can't we critically assess "why farms need" plastic?

Would you all do this in order to paint your house, or would you just remove the fruit bowl ??

 

[case 5140]

I see a huge amount of inputs coming in plastic now; whereas years ago it was packaged differently.

I hate wrap silage and round bale netting. Am i right in saying that netting and twine is not recyclable?

It would be nice if we could utilise plastic on farm ie make things . Stockboard is a great product. I often wondered if we could make plastic beams and sheets to make sheds? Uv might be the enemy?

They cant do anything with netting... cant get in clean, but twine is recyclable. Ive baled with twine this year, but slows the job down...

 

[case 5140]

On the net wrap front it is possible to use balers that will wrap in plastic with no net, so you only have one thing to dispose of. Albeit more of that thing.

On the recycling front I do a lot of work with boards made from recycled plastic, the chap that makes them is local to us and started off making them to sell the machines he designed. They are essentially a large sandwich toaster.
What would be entirely possible on the face of it is for the farmers in our area to get together and buy one and then put all their plastic waste through it and receive boarding back which can be used for all sorts, any waste or off cuts can be returned and remade into more boards. This could be replicated all across the country, either one person buying a machine and taking plastic or groups chipping in and using one between them.

The issue currently is that it's so so much cheaper for him to take sea plastic, send it north to be chipped and then get it back that it's not worth his time to take silage wrap and get it cleaned.
I figure there must be a way around this that's scalable

Thats the big problem with wrap getting it clean. Was talking to my local recycle company,they are having to sent all the wrap to landfill( for the last 2 years),before that it went on a boat somewhere......No one will have it now unless its washed.... They are working on a big washing machine in Germany am told but know one doing oat about it here............We need to set up a Uk wash plant then we could sell it!

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Thats the big problem with wrap getting it clean. Was talking to my local recycle company,they are having to sent all the wrap to landfill( for the last 2 years),before that it went on a boat somewhere......No one will have it now unless its washed.... They are working on a big washing machine in Germany am told but know one doing oat about it here............We need to set up a Uk wash plant then we could sell it!

We had a wrap collection point in our yard at work (haulage depot).
Apparently it sat there, uncollected, for about 6 years - it was clean, strapped into little cubes, and all..... ?‍ about 3 tonnes of it.

 

[egbert]

Absolutely, the heavier the animal the greater the overall impact of its life becomes, in general terms.

Cattle stop fitting our environment and climate at about 520kgs liveweight, which is consquentially "why" you don't see dairy cattle bigger than that down here, and 450kg is even more effective.

Thus they do not need to be supplied with aids to remain afloat, nor do the farmers that keep cattle.
The ones starting engines daily to feed the cattle make considerably lower returns per kg of output than the ones that do not, which lead me to the conclusion that simple decisions greatly affect outcomes.

I'm just keen to find out who makes the decisions and what that decisionmaking process is, that's the only reason I ask questions about "who, why".

I can only conclude that supermarkets make these decisions?
If so it is the supermarket that's largely responsible for the single-use plastic problem they create via those decisions?

OK Pete.
I've a quieter day planned, so....

My own farm, and those that surround it for several miles, are now solely livestock raising. Each used to till a tiny area of corn/roots for subsistence farming, but these holdings have been steadily amalgamated over the last 2 centuries.
(and there's continual agri-use evidence within 100 meters of where I'm sitting, going back several thousand years)
So we're tied to livestock unless we plant trees. Many of us are tenants, and growing timber for profit doesn't easily fit in a tenancy.
Much of the open hill land is 'common' and therefore legally more or less impossible to tree up- whatever your motives.

We can summer far more stock than we can easily winter, being on a 365 sq mile granite upswelling, which takes 80-120 " of rain per annum
Natural ph is barely readable, although there's limestone 10 miles away, and long history of it being used.
If we drop stock numbers, the trash takes over, (on land you can't access to top).

There are centuries of transhumance practise evidence locally, where the stock moved to where it was best placed each season.
Stores lambs and calves have been sold off the hill farms for centuries, lowland stock has been ferried uphill for summer pasture, and hill breeding stock 'off wintered' in various guises for...well, forever in human terms.
Modern rules, and farming circumstances elsewhere make it ever more fragile.
At the same time, changing fodder preservation methods have made it practical to winter stock here.

For the first half of my life, we were being paid subs to keep ever more productive animals, while (fossil fuel based) tech allowed us to do so.
We didn't always 'get it right', but we responded to the request/incentives.

Lately, the subs have been redirected away from production, and oft toward the environment. Post brexit, that is almost certainly going to be continued/extended.
Stock numbers have slipped by maybe 30-40%...it's hard to generalise, but there are much fewer sheep up there now, and the cattle numbers are falling.
The trade for our produce is so tied in with external forces it is impractical to even imagine living by simple supply/demand forces any more.

Many of us are keeping a nucleus of stock to maintain impetus, hedging our bets on what the future holds.
(and looking to the Antipodes, I'm reminded my tribe had already been keeping stock on these hills for some centuries before Cook sailed his tub round your way...the subconscious cultural tie is significant)
At the same time, we're being accosted daily by the pressure of a vast urban majority, oft with scant understanding of how and where food comes from, but who want to point the finger at us while concreting their own landscape.
(the creeping urban development is sickening to me, and a symptom of a species out of control..it is only with careful restraint that I remember i am technically one of them myself)
The pressure on us feels intense, and while I claimed yesterday that I can't speak for others, in fact I do just that through various means, both as a paid man, and as a 'volunteer'.

I have always challenged what I see around me, and what I do myself. I have oft experimented with changing bits of my system. i continue to do so, but it's balanced against all of the above.
I can see a perfectly rational chain of events that brought me to where I am with plastic, and stock numbers/management, and looking at the wider human culture -like my boy and the chinese fishing lures- I'm unashamed of the journey I've taken.
I'm well capable of asking questions of myself where i go next, but equally tetchy about others doing it for me - and trust me Pete, there are queues of em doing so, and not all of the from a grassland farmers perspective.

I've no real idea what 'holistic farming' is, but I do know I've got to go and do some of whatever it is I do do, as they're starting to holler for brekkers.

 

[Gulli]

great idea, but am just wondering how it stands up to UV & weathering ?

So far I've not seen any problems but weve only been building with it for a couple of years so time will tell

 

[Sid]

A big sheet is better than bale wrap for sure, but it is still plastic.

I'm not saying your wrong but is it?

Look at the bigger picture of fuel usage to get it to the storage stage. Also look at the losses in collection, storage and feeding out.

NZ utilize grass really well in a grazing situation but taking paddocks out they mainly use bales not clamps.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

I'm not saying your wrong but is it?

Look at the bigger picture of fuel usage to get it to the storage stage. Also look at the losses in collection, storage and feeding out.

NZ utilize grass really well in a grazing situation but taking paddocks out they mainly use bales not clamps.

They tend towards overutilisation around here - which is when their grassland suddenly costs them a lot of money.
Overgraze the grass, bolts to seed early, then stress it more, they believe it to be the best/only way to farm with grass

It's like the idea of seedheads gives them the cold sweats - how you can plant a seed and then hate the plant all summer is a bit beyond me

I have worked on one where we've been raking for bales and feeding bales out with the same tractor on the same day, just an opportunity to crack a bit more urea on I think! ?‍
Pretty interesting thinking behind that one

NZ dairy grazing systems are bewildering, diversity is a dirty word; outwintering on single-species crops means bales like fecking toadstools, everywhere
(When I was employed contracting I stamped out 68,000 bales in a season, and we had 2 more balers, it was a "good grass year" but half still talked drought).

It's an ecological disaster area from a soil / ecosystem perspective, just so much unnecessary compaction, cost and barely sustainable - they bred a monster, it'll be interesting to see how this model evolves as all the walls are closing in on the old one.
Plastic is a minor player in the big pollution picture and I think we have many more pressing environmental issues to address, just as @egbert says in his brilliant post above

Most all of the environmental issues are probably best avoided by NOT doing things the way our local fashion is doing!
Speaking as an ex dairy farmer, cultivation and baleage "technician", and currently driving a bulky spreading super on steep hill farms with tons of locked-up fertiliser - we can do so so so much better!
We could cut our energy inputs to one-third of what they are on some farms. Debt drives the system.

Sorry about the rant

I'm far from "perfect" but I want to help and not just be part of the problem, like I was .

 

[SilliamWhale]

A big sheet is better than bale wrap for sure, but it is still plastic.

Yes but given what it conserves and keeps fresh I'd say its a pretty good investment

 

[Nearly]

Isn't a big sheet of plastic over a clamp a very efficient way of preserving forage?

Whats the environmental impact of concrete pit and sides compared to rolls of bale wrap?

I'd think that the concrete's CO2 would be high but would last for 20 years plus so average per year is lower than bales.
I wish I'd 20 years left to build a clamp.
The best thing we've done over last couple of years is to be able to make hay rather than wrap bales. I don't think I can depend on that though.
Plastic container use from ag chems are going to be down this year, but then so is area actually growing crops.

 

[hendrebc]

Absolutely, the heavier the animal the greater the overall impact of its life becomes, in general terms.

Cattle stop fitting our environment and climate at about 520kgs liveweight, which is consquentially "why" you don't see dairy cattle bigger than that down here, and 450kg is even more effective.

Thus they do not need to be supplied with aids to remain afloat, nor do the farmers that keep cattle.
The ones starting engines daily to feed the cattle make considerably lower returns per kg of output than the ones that do not, which lead me to the conclusion that simple decisions greatly affect outcomes.

I'm just keen to find out who makes the decisions and what that decisionmaking process is, that's the only reason I ask questions about "who, why".

I can only conclude that supermarkets make these decisions?
If so it is the supermarket that's largely responsible for the single-use plastic problem they create via those decisions?

Yes. I've been trying to breed smaller cows by breeding them younger and it stops them getting too big. I could go smaller but I'm a bit nervous about letting them go too small because if they get below a certain weight you get penalised heavily on their cull value because their carcass weight will be below the minimum. Doesn't matter so much if they live 10+ years as you will easily save the value of the cull cow in reduced feed costs but if they are heifers that fail to get back in calf the second time it's a big financial hit from potentially £1000+ to a few hundred.
It's the supermarkets that dictate what size carcasses they want to fit in their little plastic packages that look good on their shelves.

 

[Scribus]

An estimated 2-3 million tons of plastics are used in agriculture each year and the use of plastic in agriculture is so prevalent it is now referred to as ‘plasticulture’. By far the biggest use of plastic in agriculture is for plastic mulch films and silage wrap. These are typically made from polyethylene (PE) because it is cheap, easily processed, highly durable and flexible. However; it is because of PE’s non-biodegradable nature, that it is now becoming an environmental concern. Rather than biodegrade, PE undergoes a process of light induced ‘oxo degradation’, which results in the breakdown of PE film, in the presence of light, to microplastics, that are unobservable to the human eye. The concern here is that microplastics are finding their way into the food chain and the effects of microplastic bioaccumulation on animal and human health are not yet fully understood.

Been away for a couple of days so don't know if it's already been mentioned but Samaco claim their maize film is biodegradable -

Biodegradable Corn Plastic | Maize Film

SAMCO has developed different types of Biodegradable Corn Plastic and Maize Film to meet the needs best suited for different markets.

www.samco.ie

 

[Veryfruity]

Ive been trying to reduce single use plastics for the last few years.

I grow an acre of tomatoes, last year I tried sisal, worked fine for most of the tunnels, where it got damp under the vents it failed. The biodegradable clips worked well, and are composting as I post. The tunnel skins can be sold at the end of life.

Plastic for covering raised beds has been replaced with compost, and works ok.

I’m still looking at strings and have found a Dutch supplier who do a whole host of biodegradable strings

Royal Brinkman International - Global Specialist in Horticulture

Royal Brinkman International is the online platform for the professional horticulture. Discover all our horticultural products, knowledge and personal advice.

royalbrinkman.com

I don’t know your specs for baling.

I think with thought we can all make more effort to cut down/eliminate bit by bit.

 

[newholland]

Thank you @Veryfruity for the link, great to see somebody having a positive go at getting plastic gone!

 

[newholland]

yep we can farm without plastic as its been done before just the same as farming without AB's and sprays, tis nart new

Its not new, but its very hard to do those things in a dairy farm situation in 2020- whilst still generating enough money to rent a uk farm, pay wages and service a mortgage etc. The methods then have to become different from what was done years ago and it becomes very tricky …… unless there is the luxury situation of financial security from else where and the farm could just free wheel along with 1950 methods no drama, claim BPS and I agree its all very easy.

Be nice to tick the above list and yet still maintain 5 cuts of silage, 8500lts of milk etc. Not saying that is a good thing mind you, but you have to work with what you have.

 

[Woolless]

The very least we can do is make sure it's recycled. Annoys me when people tell me theirs just goes to landfill. Or worse still, as you say, burnt.
It's got seemingly impossible to recycle net wrap, though it's a less significant amount than silage wrap. Anyone recycling it these days?

I try to make as much hay as possible to reduce cost and plastic.

There was talk a few years ago of a couple lads trying to develop a biodegradable wrap - anyone still working on that? Or edible wrap was another idea muted.

Agri-Cycle recycle net wrap. They are based in Lincolnshire but my wrap went to them for the first time this year as they collect quite locally.

 

[Chae1]

I know we all need to contribute to reducing plastic usage, but the main contributors are supermarkets in my opinion. The amount of packaging that food comes in is ridiculous. Yet they'll still enforce us as suppliers through farm assurance to recycle farm plastic.