Ploughing today

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Roy Stokes

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Location
East Shropshire
The above info taken from your very own website.

I am somewhat surprised you have read from my site given your commentary on earlier posts in the competition ploughing forum ! I thought you had some sort of dislike of the more technical ploughmen among us ?

it may be the cross shaft is too far over, as i said, its fully over to the land side

If the cross shaft is fully shoved through to the left, (as viewed from the rear) which brings the plough to the right, and the right wheel is fully to the left and the plough is still running towards wide then no doubt something is wrong with the plough, a narrower wheel setting should result in more cross shaft showing on the right of the plough as you are sliding the plough to the left to widen the front furrow.

Most TS 59's I have had through here tend to run best at 40 inches between the wheels (52 centres) for 10 inch work and 44 inches ( 56 inch centres) for 12 inch work, at 10 inch work, 52 centres the cross shaft normally protrudes to the right of the frame about 2 inches, although rarely are 2 absolutely identical.

In the photograph of you making your start, and again I reiterate it is difficult to tell from here but it would appear that the 3rd mouldboard looks low in the ground and a low furrow seems to be leaving it, by contrast the 4th furrow is piling up the soil, I realise you have the plough tilted up to make the start however the 2nd and 4th furrows leaving the plough are higher than the 3rd.
YL mould boards are notorious for moving on their mounts and getting them to sit still and at the correct height in the soil defines ploughmen from also ran's.

Also from the photograph it is easy to see how much the plough is crabbing by the angle of the depth wheel in comparison to the tractor wheel
 

Roy Stokes

Member
Location
East Shropshire
Also I would add that if the plough at sometime has lost a point and worn the frog slightly the resulting "slop" where the point fits on allows the point to ride upwards having a dramatic effect on the pitch of that particular body, maybe you have over looked this ?
 

John 1594

Member
Location
Cambridgeshire
I am somewhat surprised you have read from my site given your commentary on earlier posts in the competition ploughing forum ! I thought you had some sort of dislike of the more technical ploughmen among us ?



If the cross shaft is fully shoved through to the left, (as viewed from the rear) which brings the plough to the right, and the right wheel is fully to the left and the plough is still running towards wide then no doubt something is wrong with the plough, a narrower wheel setting should result in more cross shaft showing on the right of the plough as you are sliding the plough to the left to widen the front furrow.

Most TS 59's I have had through here tend to run best at 40 inches between the wheels (52 centres) for 10 inch work and 44 inches ( 56 inch centres) for 12 inch work, at 10 inch work, 52 centres the cross shaft normally protrudes to the right of the frame about 2 inches, although rarely are 2 absolutely identical.

In the photograph of you making your start, and again I reiterate it is difficult to tell from here but it would appear that the 3rd mouldboard looks low in the ground and a low furrow seems to be leaving it, by contrast the 4th furrow is piling up the soil, I realise you have the plough tilted up to make the start however the 2nd and 4th furrows leaving the plough are higher than the 3rd.
YL mould boards are notorious for moving on their mounts and getting them to sit still and at the correct height in the soil defines ploughmen from also ran's.

Also from the photograph it is easy to see how much the plough is crabbing by the angle of the depth wheel in comparison to the tractor wheel


As i said, the beams and legs, frogs are certainly spot on. All the legs were removed, and bolted together, one was bent back, this was straightened. All 4 legs then sandwiched together again, all the bolt holes lined up and there were no gaps between the legs

the frogs did require some tweaking to get them true, the beam has had spirit levels, tape measures and everything else, that measures up right too. All new bolts on the mouldboards, new packing pieces, all the stays are the same lenght, i literally left nothing to chance with it

it does lay it well when its on the level, its got to be the cross shaft at fault, as i said, we tried it at 56" with the cross shaft hard left, and it ran wide, so we moved into 52" and left the cross shaft where it was, it may need to come to the right an inch or so?

Either that, or it was simply operator error in having the cross shaft cranked over too much on the adjuster, or the bell crank needs rotating on the shaft as its in the wrong place. I set it so with the lift arm pins vertical to each other, i was halway of the available thread on the adjuster
 

John 1594

Member
Location
Cambridgeshire
Also I would add that if the plough at sometime has lost a point and worn the frog slightly the resulting "slop" where the point fits on allows the point to ride upwards having a dramatic effect on the pitch of that particular body, maybe you have over looked this ?

Maybe, they were all a tight fit when it was put together, but when i got it home i did notice no4 seemed a bit loose and will need a steel shim inserting under it to tighten it up

im still thinking its the cross shaft, it cant be anything else, as we have 40" between the tyres on 10" furrows, everything else measures and lines up as it should
 

John 1594

Member
Location
Cambridgeshire
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15622331_1375146619176897_637230001341988206_n.jpg
15541687_1375146622510230_7858625668098406214_n.jpg
15697600_1376994395658786_6286042243488194124_n.jpg
 

John 1594

Member
Location
Cambridgeshire
As you can see, i literally stripped the entire thing to its component parts, freed all the adjusters off and put it all back together with new bolts and fittings, as surely you should?
 

Roy Stokes

Member
Location
East Shropshire
it does lay it well when its on the level, its got to be the cross shaft at fault, as i said, we tried it at 56" with the cross shaft hard left, and it ran wide, so we moved into 52" and left the cross shaft where it was, it may need to come to the right an inch or so?

If you move the cross shaft Right it will only serve to send the plough even wider, where were your cross shaft pins when you reckon you had the correct front furrow width, I understand the soil was not to your liking but seemed not to be troubling the top brass too much
Fordson.png
 

John 1594

Member
Location
Cambridgeshire
The trailer boys were getting on much better and straighter than the mounted men. Biggest suprise to me is when someone turned up with a brand new tarmac rake proudly mounted in the pole holder on his tractor. I was expecting him to start repairing the road after finishing his plot!!

Chances are i had the cross shaft wrong..pictures suggest i adjusted it prior to that run.
 

Pennine Ploughing

Member
Mixed Farmer
The trailer boys were getting on much better and straighter than the mounted men. Biggest suprise to me is when someone turned up with a brand new tarmac rake proudly mounted in the pole holder on his tractor. I was expecting him to start repairing the road after finishing his plot!!

Chances are i had the cross shaft wrong..pictures suggest i adjusted it prior to that run.
what are your front wheels set at, and distance between the tyres at the bottom ?
 

Roy Stokes

Member
Location
East Shropshire
The trailer boys were getting on much better and straighter than the mounted men.

Mounted top brass must have done at least as well as the trailed as the overall champion was the well known Mr Peter Carmen from Norfolk Ploughing Society so I don't buy that, I also don't see what difference the type of plough used would make
Inside of front furrow wheel lines up with inside of rear furrow wheel.

Does it measure the same between the wheels ? it may look to line up but it needs to be somewhere around the 40 inches between both rear and front wheels, at the moment I have a Ferguson in the yard with 52 inch rear wheel settings and the fronts are as far in as the axle will allow ( there is one bolt hole left but I have to gas axe the ends off the inner of the axle to get it in that far ) the tractor also has 4.00/19 tyres which is compounding the problem, this in turn is making the plough crab as you cannot shift a ferguson cross shaft, the only way to get this plough to run anywhere near correct is to crab the cross shaft towards narrow, which in turn has the effect of putting pressure against the next front furrow and can result in pairing

Its my opinion that the best plough that day had no discs, no skims, and wasnt even bright

it was a fergy 2f on semi digger boards, with trash boards on top, and was making as good, if not better job that a lot of the "experts"

That would be in your as we now know to be inexperienced opinion of course, I would like to see the work from that as although Fergy digger and semi digger do go well in sand they are still no competition for a YL of TCN in the hands of Peter Carmen, Bob Callaby or Steve Framingham who were all present at the match
 

John 1594

Member
Location
Cambridgeshire
Did you measure from each new point on each body up to a equal distance at the back of the board, mark off then align the wood with the marks ?

Again it's difficult to tell from here but the 2nd and 4th furrow appear to protrude further from the wooden baton than the 3rd ?

Put the strip of wood along the outward edge of the boards and they all match...measurements between 1-2,2-3,3-4 all the same
 

John 1594

Member
Location
Cambridgeshire
Roy, johns biggest problem was his boards where very dull and not polished like all the match ploughs It needed 100 acre of strong dry land to shine it up and it would of ploughed very different


Have now solved that issue

chatting to lad up the local tonight who could do with a bit of spare cash to sort his motorbike out

said il give him £100 quid to have a day on it with a grinder and a few boxes of discs. He is going to have a go at it saturday

Im working away at the moment and will easily cover his wages in half a day, so its win win on all counts!
 
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