Pneumonia

Location
Devon
We have the same issue as @CharcoalWally with selling stock. Not many years ago we had at least five small markets within a few miles of us now we just have Truro, a big old draughty shed where cattle in particular stand on concrete for hours, are shoved around, mixed up and scared witless by incompetent drovers always in a hurry and thats before they are loaded with strange beasts to travel lord knows how far. It's the same with abattoirs. We now only have one that I would call local whereas before we had loads. None of this is condusive to animal welfare, disease control or reduces the carbon footprint of the produce. One of the big supermarkets used to buy my named sire Aberdeen Angus finished beef but persuading buyers to come down to Cornwall to view stores is a non-starter.

I guess this thread is the result of "agro-progress " and the costs to the industry incurred in an attempt to maintain animal health in the face of modern husbandry and public expectations. Maybe in the future it will come a full circle. It would be good to think that we could make that decision before we are forced to but I'm not going to hold my breath.

If you had a lorry load ( either 20 or 40 odd ) then buyers would come to Cornwall!

You should sell them in Exeter, that is the dearest market in the SW for store cattle!
 

DrWazzock

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
The thing that concerns me as a novice cattle keeper, is when to reach for the antibiotics? I have often noticed a snotty or coughing beast and got the antibiotic in and crush lined up, only for it to clear up, so I have never ever injected an antibiotic for pneumonia in three years of keeping cattle. I try to keep the shed airy and avoid mouldy hay and stress in general.
 
Location
Devon
The thing that concerns me as a novice cattle keeper, is when to reach for the antibiotics? I have often noticed a snotty or coughing beast and got the antibiotic in and crush lined up, only for it to clear up, so I have never ever injected an antibiotic for pneumonia in three years of keeping cattle. I try to keep the shed airy and avoid mouldy hay and stress in general.

A good stockman/ woman will know when to inject, it comes with experience!
 
makes no difference to me! i had a bullock with snotty nose today fed him and he seems ok, should i jag him anyway :sneaky:

The thing that concerns me as a novice cattle keeper, is when to reach for the antibiotics? I have often noticed a snotty or coughing beast and got the antibiotic in and crush lined up, only for it to clear up, so I have never ever injected an antibiotic for pneumonia in three years of keeping cattle. I try to keep the shed airy and avoid mouldy hay and stress in general.
Stick a thermometer up their arse and find out if they are ill or just a bit of snot.
 

Flossie

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Lancs
Bovine is a bloke. IF it said female (and I don't remember doing so) then it was an accident.

A180 is a fluoroquinolone and used for the most serious infections in people. It would never be my first choice for pneumonia.

You are 100% right about the negative effects of BVD. We had a dairy farm who had endless problems (sour and pneumonia) and eradicating BVD made the problem go away.

My apologies about the female bit-maybe I made it up :scratchhead: I'll have to change my mindset as to how I read your posts now :D
I believe A180 is one of those thingamibobs-only found out last week when our vet said they're holding back on using it for that reason. Why is it always the stuff that works? :(
 

Sharpy

Member
Livestock Farmer
@gone up the hill you have pretty much managed to drive @Guy Smith away from this forum and you are now having a good go at @bovine.
I'm beginning to tire of your attitude. The value of the forum is informed debate. Both @Guy Smith and @bovine add to that in a pretty unique way. That I value their input, doesn't mean I always agree with them (does it @Guy Smith :p)
Could I respectively ask @gone up the hill that you just cool it down a bit as I value the input that @bovine is giving to us and consider that we would all be the poorer if he/she decided to take his/her toys home.

Just my thoughts, but of course I could be in a minority of one.
I'm in too!
 

bovine

Member
Location
North
A good stockmen wont need to take its temperature, if your a novice then fair enough.
Actually, you are wrong again. There is a pattern emerging.

When you go through batches taking all their temperatures it is amazing how many can look 100% normal and still have a significant fever. It never fails to surprise me or the farmers. We have some guys who I'd call really good stock men who always have a thermometer in their pocket with their penkinfe.

We know that large numbers of animals with significant pneumonia (lung changes at slaughter) are missed on farm and not treated.
 

Forever Fendt

Member
Location
Derbyshire
Actually, you are wrong again. There is a pattern emerging.

When you go through batches taking all their temperatures it is amazing how many can look 100% normal and still have a significant fever. It never fails to surprise me or the farmers. We have some guys who I'd call really good stock men who always have a thermometer in their pocket with their penkinfe.

We know that large numbers of animals with significant pneumonia (lung changes at slaughter) are missed on farm and not treated.
so does this mean if they look well but have a elevated temp they need treating or is it if they are not showing any signs you leave them to fight it them selves
 

bovine

Member
Location
North
High temperature --> treat.

Maybe not if you've just run it 3 miles home or they have been chasing around like idiots, are sweated up and now have a temperature +0.5°C

103°F
39.5°C

Would be my thresholds to treat. Intervet used to give away free thermometers that said "103 - Nuflor me". It helped the number stick in the head.
 
bovine, post: 1961592, member: 12486"]High temperature --> treat.

Maybe not if you've just run it 3 miles home or they have been chasing around like idiots, are sweated up and now have a temperature +0.5°C

103°F
39.5°C

Would be my thresholds to treat. Intervet used to give away free thermometers that said "103 - Nuflor me". It helped the number stick in the head.[/QUOTE]
Yep , got a few of these , very useful. Especially when you have a calf that you think is off colour , but when you take the temperature , it turns out to be normal. Therefore you dont waste antibiotic on an animal that doesn't need it.
 
Location
East Mids
We learned sharp lessons about pneumonia about 6 yrs ago when we had a bad outbreak in our heifer calves, lost a couple and several had their growth stunted. As first lactation animals those affected had yields were markedly below the others and one also had lungworm problems as a yearling despite using autoworm, no doubt due to chronic lung damage. I changed three things - colostrum management was tightened up, especially for calves from heifers, we started vaccinating anything we were keeping with Rispoval intranasal (nearly all our problems were when calves were 2-4 weeks old), and I monitored air flow and conditions in the open-fronted sheds more carefully, taking big bale walls down again if necessary once a driving wind/rain spell had passed. We are IBR and BVD free.
This has made a massive difference to our calf health and pneumonia is rare, with the exception of this season, which has been worse again, (we believe due to having bought-in in-calf animals to replace TB losses and their colostrum not having the right antibody profile).

When we need to treat, we have found that in 99% of cases, metacam and draxin works for us. This year, some real babies (pre-vaccination) did not respond to draxin but betamox LA did the trick, although they needed 2-3 doses, the vet also treated a couple with micotil and steroids. Our vet did advise we gave all the rest of the calves from bought in animals a jab of the Betamox at birth, which we did, although reluctantly, and hope not to have to do again now the bug profile should have sorted. We have also had more scours this year, mainly animals 4-7 weeks old, accompanied by a high temp (nice to see @bovine 's guidance there, I use 39.4 as my intervention point) and often by pneumonia as well. Metacam, betamox and draxin, along with rehydration drinks and intensive nursing, have meant we have not lost any and they are all doing well now. The highest temp has been 41.7 no wonder they feel rough.

Re: A180. This has only been used once on our farm, when we had a vet to a young calf that had severe dehydration, muscle weakness and high temp and she thought it might have salmonella (it didn't and it's now in milk).

One of the young vets talks very fast and is often difficult to 'interpret'. I phoned him one Sat as the on-call vet as we had a 2 day old calf with a high temp and breathing heavy. I had given it draxin and metacam and wanted to check out if there was anything else I should do, given its young age. When he phoned me back I was in a garden centre and over a mobile connection I could not for the life of me work out what he was recommending I also give it, he had to repeat it about 10 times before the penny dropped, because he was actually saying 'A180' which we never have on farm so I couldn't match what he was saying to a familiar word/phrase. Anyway, the calf did fine with what I'd given her.

Most years now the only time we have to be very on the ball with pneumonia is when it gets warm around March when our stocking density (calves are then 4-7 months old) is getting a bit high in the rearing sheds. If we are late moving them into a bigger yard we usually get a couple of cases.
 

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Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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