Polyface

[Chasingmytail]

I think the biggest problem with direct selling and it pops up time and time again is the marketing. Its financially impossible to put an advert in a glossy (£1000 I paid once for a local mag - not one call) then you also need the manpower and enthusiasm to keep a fresh and fun FB page, a touch of twitter, someone to enter taste competitions, all the bumf (fridges etc) you need to sell at local fayres, leaflets and flyers but not once you have to keep it continual (employ a good marketing company is essential). You also need to have the selling ability and be a good talker plus enjoy it. Unless you have this you will fail - relying on the public to pop by isnt good enough you really need to be quite forceful on some occasions. Also I think cooking your products is a great way to sell plus its the best margin. If you look at the concepts on the highstreet it works as its not always a great product that sells - its the marketing, the people and the location.

There are plenty of rural grants available and many are 90% funded. This can cover a website, logos, marketing etc. We had a grant many moons ago for a mobile fridge unit and labelling machine. A cutting room and associated items are also covered. I am also surprised by the lack of take ups on these grants in our area, the rural grant money always seems to go on what I can silly projects and community funding (which dies a death after a year or so). It s easy to get hold of this money and there are pots of it.

 

[mikep]

We did markets, we used to do Bourough (compete waste of time) and still do a couple of local ones but the story is of a steady decline in sales and therefore a steady decline in quality as the better producers give up. Great taste award and all other awards are only fit for bog paper, we have got awards and mentioned in the best periodicals but translate these into sales? No chance.
We sold to some of the best shops in London and supplied some famous restaurants but the 'better' the establishment the most of your arse they want. We are ........... so when we order you will provide even though it's Friday afternoon and they didn't want any birds on Wednesday when we were up there.
It came to the point where I though f**k you the little pub in Brighton that has birds every week and pays on the nail is so much better than you as you seem to think it's an honour to supply you.
Forget the trophy sales they cost you in the end.
As for money, the more some people have the more they want to keep it. We would get a Porsche turn up to collect a goose at christmas and moan about the price but a clapped out Mondeo come and be really pleased with the price.
Money means you have a choice but doesn't mean you always choose wisely.

 

[mikep]

I think the biggest problem with direct selling and it pops up time and time again is the marketing. Its financially impossible to put an advert in a glossy (£1000 I paid once for a local mag - not one call) then you also need the manpower and enthusiasm to keep a fresh and fun FB page, a touch of twitter, someone to enter taste competitions, all the bumf (fridges etc) you need to sell at local fayres, leaflets and flyers but not once you have to keep it continual (employ a good marketing company is essential). You also need to have the selling ability and be a good talker plus enjoy it. Unless you have this you will fail - relying on the public to pop by isnt good enough you really need to be quite forceful on some occasions. Also I think cooking your products is a great way to sell plus its the best margin. If you look at the concepts on the highstreet it works as its not always a great product that sells - its the marketing, the people and the location.

There are plenty of rural grants available and many are 90% funded. This can cover a website, logos, marketing etc. We had a grant many moons ago for a mobile fridge unit and labelling machine. A cutting room and associated items are also covered. I am also surprised by the lack of take ups on these grants in our area, the rural grant money always seems to go on what I can silly projects and community funding (which dies a death after a year or so). It s easy to get hold of this money and there are pots of it.

The best sales promo we ever had was leaflets at the local petrol station, free and got lots of sales.

 

[Pasty]

I'm a huge fan of Polyface and Salatin but I can see some of his methods causing issues to be honest. I bet if I put his pastured poultry idea on my flat field I would have complaints of cruelty in no time. Never mind that these birds can't free range and the alternative is a big smelly shed. That's out of sight and mind. I've looked at doing chickens for meat and I just can't see a way to make it pay to be honest. We eat all our own cockerels but they are mostly rare breed so not commercial (although very tasty). Did consider trying something like La Bresse or Indian Game / Ixworth but is there really a market for a £15 chicken out there?

 

[Chasingmytail]

Pasty - bit confused my pasture raised egg mobile & fence has been passed by the soil association and APHA. Over winter they are in now but in a big cow shed. In what way would you have complaints? I think there is a market for high end chicken but its the marketing and all the faff that comes with it.

 

[Pasty]

Pasty - bit confused my pasture raised egg mobile & fence has been passed by the soil association and APHA. Over winter they are in now but in a big cow shed. In what way would you have complaints? I think there is a market for high end chicken but its the marketing and all the faff that comes with it.

Not on the egg side. I do the same with a moving house and nets. I meant the broiler birds in the chicken tractors. I would imagine people would consider them a bit squeezed in, which they are but that's the sort of birds they are and they are obviously far better off than in a shed all their lives.

On the layers side, I thought SA required access to forage all year round? In my view, hens are happier under cover on deep litter this time of year. They will turn fields to mudbaths at the moment, even with organic pen sizes . Do yours have access to grass or are the SA happy with them being indoors for part of the year? To be honest, that's one of the things putting me off conversion.

 

[Chasingmytail]

sorry hadnt got back to the original post. I dont know the requirements for meat chickens but you can find the sqm on any SA info online.

I cant see how any organisation could insist on all year round forage particularly in the wet and windy conditions we were enduring - my poor girls were soaked and drowning in mud and would not lay. If is no where to put them on the grass in the winter its only safe that they would go inside a cattle shed with piles of soil, rocks, tree bark and tree branches. Its more the space per meter that I'm concerned about and they have a very natural existence in there with natural but poor lighting. On the last visit the SA guy didnt mention problems or raise issues but that would need to be confirmed as we are in conversion status. Surely if the cows are in then the chickens will be the same but I will raise this on next visit.

 

[Pasty]

sorry hadnt got back to the original post. I dont know the requirements for meat chickens but you can find the sqm on any SA info online.

I cant see how any organisation could insist on all year round forage particularly in the wet and windy conditions we were enduring - my poor girls were soaked and drowning in mud and would not lay. If is no where to put them on the grass in the winter its only safe that they would go inside a cattle shed with piles of soil, rocks, tree bark and tree branches. Its more the space per meter that I'm concerned about and they have a very natural existence in there with natural but poor lighting. On the last visit the SA guy didnt mention problems or raise issues but that would need to be confirmed as we are in conversion status. Surely if the cows are in then the chickens will be the same but I will raise this on next visit.

I was just looking at the SA poultry guide:

http://www.soilassociation.org/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=9zNik0Pt378=&tabid=135

On p11 it says 'Hens should have continuous and easy daytime access to land covered
with vegetation.' That worries me as I was planning housing in the winter as you do, but probably in a polytunnel. I guess I would have to speak to them. Also, the house size says 'Stocking rates: maximum six birds/m2'. The house I was going to build would be about 12x8' or something like 9m2 which means 54 birds maximum. To me, that seems overly harsh as the birds would never be locked in and only go in to roost and lay. As I would be planning on moving them a lot, a larger house would make things tricky with my little gateways. Maybe I have mis-read the specs.

 

[mikep]

I was just looking at the SA poultry guide:

http://www.soilassociation.org/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=9zNik0Pt378=&tabid=135

On p11 it says 'Hens should have continuous and easy daytime access to land covered
with vegetation.' That worries me as I was planning housing in the winter as you do, but probably in a polytunnel. I guess I would have to speak to them. Also, the house size says 'Stocking rates: maximum six birds/m2'. The house I was going to build would be about 12x8' or something like 9m2 which means 54 birds maximum. To me, that seems overly harsh as the birds would never be locked in and only go in to roost and lay. As I would be planning on moving them a lot, a larger house would make things tricky with my little gateways. Maybe I have mis-read the specs.

Don't worry about SA accreditation or any other crappy scheme as your best selling points are local and tradition with high welfare. Your system is, as was used for centuries, so play that up. I was very rarely asked if the birds were organic but when I explained the system I can't recall I ever lost a sale. The public don't care about labels if they buy off the producer. There was a farm shop in Cheshire that made a living out of selling 'hormone free chickens' ffs that would be interesting!.

 

[Pasty]

Don't worry about SA accreditation or any other crappy scheme as your best selling points are local and tradition with high welfare. Your system is, as was used for centuries, so play that up. I was very rarely asked if the birds were organic but when I explained the system I can't recall I ever lost a sale. The public don't care about labels if they buy off the producer. There was a farm shop in Cheshire that made a living out of selling 'hormone free chickens' ffs that would be interesting!.

I agree to a large extent and we certainly have a thriving market for our eggs which are just fresh farm eggs. We do keep them to SA standards as a whole in terms of space and stuff but that's just because I think you get a better egg and less stress in the flock. I suppose the issue is that we are heading into sheep and maybe goats soon and I aim to sell a lot online. In this marketplace, I can see that Organic means a lot. Of course there is the option to put the pasture into organic and keep the hens elsewhere but the whole concept was to follow sheep with hens. At some point we want cattle as well but at the moment, lack of a decent barn and the risks of TB make it a no go for the time being.

 

[mikep]

I agree to a large extent and we certainly have a thriving market for our eggs which are just fresh farm eggs. We do keep them to SA standards as a whole in terms of space and stuff but that's just because I think you get a better egg and less stress in the flock. I suppose the issue is that we are heading into sheep and maybe goats soon and I aim to sell a lot online. In this marketplace, I can see that Organic means a lot. Of course there is the option to put the pasture into organic and keep the hens elsewhere but the whole concept was to follow sheep with hens. At some point we want cattle as well but at the moment, lack of a decent barn and the risks of TB make it a no go for the time being.

Try the pasture fed ...... Association. It's getting traction with buyers now and not as much a pain to do.

 

[Pasty]

Try the pasture fed ...... Association. It's getting traction with buyers now and not as much a pain to do.

Yeah, was reading today that they are desperate for new producers. I'm a 'member' so get updates but not a producer. Might be a way to get a decent price straight to the butcher. For a while at least.

 

[Andrew2]

Are we talking about the new DVD "Polyfaces A world of many choices"? if so I have a couple of spare DVD's that can be circulated if anyone is interested, my experience with direct marketing was positive, it just took so much time butchering and preparing the meat side, and with both our sons being disabled, we didn't have the family numbers to help ease the burden of running the livestock and farm shop.

 

[Pasty]

Would be very interested in seeing the film. Happy to pay postage etc.

 

[Chasingmytail]

we've ordered the new film but as yet nothing has arrivesd

 

[marco]

Was it from acresusa? They've always been quick but the last book I got ended up in India instead of Ireland so it took a month

 

[balbirniefarm]

Are we talking about the new DVD "Polyfaces A world of many choices"? if so I have a couple of spare DVD's that can be circulated if anyone is interested, my experience with direct marketing was positive, it just took so much time butchering and preparing the meat side, and with both our sons being disabled, we didn't have the family numbers to help ease the burden of running the livestock and farm shop.

I think I'm going to watch it online. It's here and you can order a dvd. http://www.polyfaces.com/

 

[Andrew2]

Would be very interested in seeing the film. Happy to pay postage etc.

Inbox me with your postal address and I will send you one of the copies.