Population growth

[Pond digger]

Starting from the assumption that population growth must be finite; what, if anything, can/should be done? Perhaps you believe numbers will naturally plateau and that there is no need for active management of any kind? Perhaps you’re a religious nutter who thinks that man should proliferate without restraint or conscience, in the belief that God ordained it, so it must be right? Perhaps you think that China had the right idea with their strict one child policy? Or, maybe you think there will be a forced reckoning, through plague, war or natural disaster?

 

[Danllan]

When the country was more or less* a closed system the population grew with technology and production - being islands made a big difference too. Further back that also applied, but regardless of advances, population was controlled by nature too, whereas now there is very little 'natural selection' of humans in first world countries - effectively we have ceased to evolve on that basis.

Looking at where they are and what the biggest families consist of, I think that for so long as the general public subsidise the production of children there will be little chance of personal responsibility being exercised in such groups.

We have an 'aging population', so what? It is natural, and when the current geriatrics are gone we shall have a 'younger' population, again. It is cyclical. But the new quick-fix of bringing in vast numbers to try and stay at a certain level, but who then out-breed the native population and then get old too, merely serves to a) push the problem down the road, and b) reduce the social cohesion of the country.

It's an extremely serious thing that resources are so stretched and that society is being so altered.

Yet authoritarian diktats are utterly alien to us, so there can be none of them. Far Right extremists advocate a 'race war', if it went the way they hope, it would probably lead to mass emigration of a few millions - but to where - Germany, for an irony? - and at what moral cost? Disease, as mentioned earlier, is most unlikely to have any effect. War in a greater sense? With whom and about what? Nuclear Armageddon, as opposed to a single catastrophic terrorist action, has never been less likely since it could occur. Natural disaster is also unlikely to have a great effect on us directly, we are in a very stable geological zone; but a huge volcanic eruption or meteor strike elsewhere would have an effect, although not just on us.

Taking all that into consideration, I think the only way we can reasonably expect to see a major change is by societal opinions and norms requiring it. But now one isn't allowed to judge others unless they are un-PC, so expect the continued expansion of the population as at present, minus some Europeans. Unless things change... .

*By that I mean that immigration or emigration of a few tens of thousands factored no more than a disease outbreak or a particularly fecund generation.

 

[le bon paysan]

If you haven't seen it , this is thought provoking

 

[czechmate]

If you haven't seen it , this is thought provoking

TBH - I couldn't feel optimistic about becoming a grandparent last year. Well this doesn't make me feel any more so. I only hope they enjoy some good times whilst young as I don't see a full life for them either

 

[Danllan]

Having just discussed the subject with a friend who is a Doctor, I stand corrected. She thinks that if something like Ebola or Small Pox got loose it would see huge numbers of fatalities, possibly in the low millions. The reason is that even if the correct vaccine can be identified it takes a long time to get large amounts of it and we, as a nation (along with every other country), don't currently stockpile anywhere near enough, so there would be little hope to ring and contain infection outbreaks...

 

[Pond digger]

Having just discussed the subject with a friend who is a Doctor, I stand corrected. She thinks that if something like Ebola or Small Pox got loose it would see huge numbers of fatalities, possibly in the low millions. The reason is that even if the correct vaccine can be identified it takes a long time to get large amounts of it and we, as a nation (along with every other country), don't currently stockpile anywhere near enough, so there would be little hope to ring and contain infection outbreaks...

And of course, the more densely packed we are, the faster it spreads.

 

[ollie989898]

If we were due a global outbreak of Ebola or Smallpox we would have had it by now.

The population of Earth will rise, it will only be curtailed by a lack of potable water supplies.

The answer is of course to make nations wealthier and allow education for females and also provide basic healthcare and contraception, even in those backward staunchly Christian nations where it is not permitted, the fudging Pope should be donating free condoms to Africa by the shipload if only to combat HIV.

The Chinese are working diligently on cheaper nuclear reactor designs as are the Russians. These will provide low cost and sustainable electricity for the poorest people in the world and then they will have the ability to grow their economies properly.

 

[Henarar]

the fudging Pope should be donating free condoms to Africa by the shipload if only to combat HIV.

when he is fudging does he use one ?

 

[Ashtree]

If we were due a global outbreak of Ebola or Smallpox we would have had it by now.

The population of Earth will rise, it will only be curtailed by a lack of potable water supplies.

If it’s water is the issue, give us a call

 

[czechmate]

when he is fudging does he use one ?

You know the pope is a catholic priest?
Quiet disrespectful really

 

[caveman]

when he is fudging does he use one ?

Don't need 'em for choir boys

 

[Henarar]

You know the pope is a catholic priest?
Quiet disrespectful really

what for him to use one or for him not to use one ?
Ollie said he was fudging I just wanted to make sure he had something to wipe his fingers on

 

[caveman]

what for him to use one or for him not to use one ?
Ollie said he was fudging I just wanted to make sure he had something to wipe his fingers on

Finger likin' good......like KFC.
Anything is permissible between consenting adults?

 

[arcobob]

If it’s water is the issue, give us a call

Water and ill gotten gains are in plentiful supply in Ireland but not much else it appears

 

[Ashtree]

Water and ill gotten gains are in plentiful supply in Ireland but not much else it appears

Wow! Is that a Brit talking about ill gotten gains I wonder?

 

[ollie989898]

I was reading a variety of stuff, most analysis suggests the developing world will push the global population to 9 billion or so before their economies grow large enough to counteract the effect.

Cheap energy and clean heating, power and sanitation, along with the convenience offered by electricity will provide a baseline for many of them.

We don't realise in the developed world how something so simple can be a massive revolution in people's lives. Washing machines are a prime example, they save families so much time because washing clothes to a hygienic standard takes such a long time manually. But then you need electricity to run them. When you look at the washing an infant generates, it is no wonder so many of them die in infancy in developing countries, how in the heck do you obtain enough clean bedding and linen for them? You can't without a washer and drier.

 

[Danllan]

@ollie989898 I have an Indian friend who is a journalist; a few years ago his then office - in Delhi - took up the 'craze' of lunchtime exercise, they fitted out washrooms and changing rooms and even bought a washing machine. After a few days the news of this got out - they think via the chai wallah - and they were, literally, besieged by the local launderers* who were up in arms that their living was being taken away by the machine.

Washing clothes by hand is a time consuming pain, unless it puts food on your table...

*Anyone out there aware of the mystery of the Indian laundry marks...?

 

[caveman]

I would say to Ollie that many of us of a certain age will probably remember our grand mothers, at least, with a boiling pot of laundry in the yard more or less.
We're not that far ahead.
And it could all go very wrong very quickly.

 

[ollie989898]

@ollie989898 I have an Indian friend who is a journalist; a few years ago his then office - in Delhi - took up the 'craze' of lunchtime exercise, they fitted out washrooms and changing rooms and even bought a washing machine. After a few days the news of this got out - they think via the chai wallah - and they were, literally, besieged by the local launderers* who were up in arms that their living was being taken away by the machine.

Washing clothes by hand is a time consuming pain, unless it puts food on your table...

*Anyone out there aware of the mystery of the Indian laundry marks...?

Christ on a bike, if you want your population stuck washing clothes by hand then global population growth is the least of your worries!

Luddite nonsense.

 

[Ashtree]

With the tariffs coming down the line on washing powder and the French & Chinese running the power plants, washing clothes in the Thames by hand will become de rigeur. Boris will lead by example.