Powdered Colostrum and Clostridial Immunity

[sheepwise]

Lost a cracking Charollais tup lamb last Friday. Thriving lamb at 50kg having been born early December and outside since 2 weeks of age. Perfectly healthy at 9.00am, stone dead at 6.00pm. Ewes on Heptavav P system and lambs had initial injection 2 weeks ago at 10 weeks of age. Suspected pulpy kidney which was confirmed by lab PM. Vet confused as to why not protected by vaccine as vaccination protocol correct. Anyway realised that this lamb was a twin born to an old ewe with a bad bag and had received powdered colostrum at birth before being twinned onto another ewe.So does powdered colostrum not provide clostridial antibodies and if not why not? Also what would be the best procedure to protect such cases in future?

 

[neilo]

Bugger.

I would think the only way the colostrum could contain antibodies to specific diseases like pulpy kidney, would be if the animals (usually cows) from which the base colostrum is derived were vaccinated themselves in order to produce those antibodies. Unlikely to happen without a significant increase in the cost of the colostrum powder I'd have thought, as it would require specific cows being collected, rather than just buying dried colostrum from whoever produces it.

Vaccinating the lambs from 3 weeks would get round it in the future.

 

[David.]

Sorry for the loss, that must hurt.
Best will always be the real thing, we scrounge off healthy doubles, or singles with good bags, to put in deep freeze for next years early ones with short bags.
Not bought powder for years, I believe it to be snake oil, with thickener to make it look convincing.

 

[sheepwise]

Bugger.

I would think the only way the colostrum could contain antibodies to specific diseases like pulpy kidney, would be if the animals (usually cows) from which the base colostrum is derived were vaccinated themselves in order to produce those antibodies. Unlikely to happen without a significant increase in the cost of the colostrum powder I'd have thought, as it would require specific cows being collected, rather than just buying dried colostrum from whoever produces it.

Vaccinating the lambs from 3 weeks would get round it in the future.

Heard of cows being vaccinated on farms and their colostrum frozen for lambs.You have to watch vaccinating young lambs too early and interfering with colostrum derived immunity so not easy to keep everything covered at right stage.Just think for the price they charge, the powdered colostrum should be better.As @David. said frozen colostrum from your own ewes is best and we would normally have some but not this time.

 

[David.]

Sorry if your experience makes my post look a bit smartypants it was not meant that way.
My problem is with companies charging well for substitutes that look the part be cause they are thick and orangey yellow, and claiming them as good as the real thing; which they patently are not.

 

[Devil's advocate]

I mix it,

Just milk out ewe & bulk up with powered colustrum for nutriets.

If I had really high value pedigree sheep, I think I'd consider a few dairy type ewes to provide colustrum/real milk for emergencies.

 

[Devil's advocate]

I once sawthat Bondi vet programme on Quest.

He was in the outback giving blood transfussions from the tup, to triplet lambs. God knows how much it costs.

 

[neilo]

Heard of cows being vaccinated on farms and their colostrum frozen for lambs.You have to watch vaccinating young lambs too early and interfering with colostrum derived immunity so not easy to keep everything covered at right stage.Just think for the price they charge, the powdered colostrum should be better.As @David. said frozen colostrum from your own ewes is best and we would normally have some but not this time.

Agreed, the powdered stuff is never as good as 'real', and especially if that real stuff is from animals on your farm, that have encountered your bugs.

I would expect the manufacturers to be buying their base dried bovine colostrum from whoever is the cheapest on the open market (before adding egg protein, veg oil, etc), so without developing their own production chain, they'd have no control over which cows it came from. Iirc, when there was some testing done a few years ago, some dried calf colostrum was actually passing disease on (EBL?) via the source colostrum being contaminated.

Yes, 3 weeks of age is the youngest you can vaccinate a lamb, without interfering with the antibodies obtained from colostrum of vaccinated ewes. I'm well aware of the practicalities of various ages of lambs in a flock, but it's still the only answer to your question about how to prevent it in future.

 

[Lili]

If you know anyone with commercial dairy goats the colostrum is brilliant. We had our house goats on the Hept P system same as the sheep and used to freeze the colostrum from first and second milking in ice cube bags.

 

[Bury the Trash]

theres always going to be a percentage or the odd animal that doesn't react to vaccination as well and it has to be absorbed through the stomach correctly timing wise of course nothing like that is ever 100 %.

if im caught out I use lamlac plus a bit of scour formula mixed in .... being more concerned about starvation and bad bacteria filling the stomach at that point . commercial stock tho.

they will only sell stuff if people buy it don't forget.

 

[D.S.S18]

the colostrum you buy, is only a substitute, it is not a replacer.
the substitute is only full of energy and you should look for a high igg replacer.

the best colostrum is from the ewe - it has the antibodies and if done correctly would cover the heptavac dose for 3-4 weeks.

 

[neilo]

If you know anyone with commercial dairy goats the colostrum is brilliant. We had our house goats on the Hept P system same as the sheep and used to freeze the colostrum from first and second milking in ice cube bags.

I assume that @sheepwise 's lambs will be mv accredited. Goats, unless they are accredited for Caprine Arthritis Encephalitis (CAE), can pass mv to sheep via colostrum iirc. I was told that there is a fair bit of CAE present in goats, so a reasonable risk of doing so. Not sure if that's the case, and obviously having your own goats, you could easily check they were free of it.

 

[2YardOfLard]

At

Bugger.

I would think the only way the colostrum could contain antibodies to specific diseases like pulpy kidney, would be if the animals (usually cows) from which the base colostrum is derived were vaccinated themselves in order to produce those antibodies. Unlikely to happen without a significant increase in the cost of the colostrum powder I'd have thought, as it would require specific cows being collected, rather than just buying dried colostrum from whoever produces it.

Vaccinating the lambs from 3 weeks would get round it in the future.

At 10 weeks old wouldn't all his colostrum protection be gone anyway?

 

[Al R]

Sorry if your experience makes my post look a bit smartypants it was not meant that way.
My problem is with companies charging well for substitutes that look the part be cause they are thick and orangey yellow, and claiming them as good as the real thing; which they patently are not.

As others on here know, I don’t heptavac etc any stock - although it’s something I’m looking into, losing a handful of lambs to pulpy kidney doesn’t warrant it unfortunately.
I’ve never used powdered Colostrum.

 

[Bury the Trash]

Even just Storing vaccine is quite a caper. A separate fridge is a bit expensive to run, could be seasonal / switched on and of f tho I guess really need a thermometer in there to check as well.

Fridge in the kitchen needs a thermometer as well if used as opening the door a lot through the day raises the temp way above night time temps.

To get the timings right on different stock and flocks is an art in itself... then theres jabbing them spot on its quite a difficult/ expensive thing to do that's for sure.

 

[Lili]

I assume that @sheepwise 's lambs will be mv accredited. Goats, unless they are accredited for Caprine Arthritis Encephalitis (CAE), can pass mv to sheep via colostrum iirc. I was told that there is a fair bit of CAE present in goats, so a reasonable risk of doing so. Not sure if that's the case, and obviously having your own goats, you could easily check they were free of it.

We had to have ours CAE tested in order to hire a billy goat.