Pre ems and adjuvants.

[Power Harrow Pilot]

Using defy and movon with 3 different agronomists. One using dictate rapeseed oil @ £5 ha , one using back row parafin oil @£2 ha other using Sod all!! What's the pro's and cons and any difference apart from to my wallet???

 

[franklin]

If they have added Defy into the mix, the probably reckon you wont mind the adjuvant as well!

 

[MNBVCXZ]

Oil with pre em is good value for the added control.

 

[Rob E]

Depends what oil, wildly different in their makeup

 

[Rob E]

Dictate is daylight robbery at £5/ha. Especially as methylated rapeseed oil is the wrong type of oil for residual herbicide use anyway!

 

[7800]

last time I used backrow it was a lot more expensive than that.
What would be the cheapest that would do some good?

 

[Rob E]

last time I used backrow it was a lot more expensive than that.
What would be the cheapest that would do some good?

Use rapeseed oils in Beet and it's much cheaper! Makes you wonder.

For residual applications, oil should be heavy with a long chain length. Most are short chain length. Trials work I saw a while back showed Remix from agrovista to be the only one which does any good because it has the above in its makeup. Some very good trials near Northampton. Think it used to be called grounded

 

[Flat 10]

Use rapeseed oils in Beet and it's much cheaper! Makes you wonder.

For residual applications, oil should be heavy with a long chain length. Most are short chain length. Trials work I saw a while back showed Remix from agrovista to be the only one which does any good because it has the above in its makeup. Some very good trials near Northampton. Think it used to be called grounded

Agrovista push remix/grounded quite hard. At the rate I use it ~ £2.50ha I think off the top of my head but I think that's less than the recommended.......... Beet rape oils are for removing wax not getting it to stick to ground.

 

[Rob E]

Probably because it works, and makes them a little money at the same time!? Exactly, the stuff in a lot of beet oils is same or damn near same as what's in a lot of the pre-em adjuvants that claim to work.

 

[Tompkins]

What's wrong with Defy?

 

[Flat 10]

What's wrong with Defy?

What's good about it?

 

[madbrains]

Wicket is the same as defy only cheaper , can't use for winter rye thou , no eamu for it

 

[franklin]

What's wrong with Defy?

It's very dear, and adds very little to the party. I think one chap on here uses it due to nasty cranesbill.

 

[ollie989898]

I am sceptical of most things by default, and pre-em adjuvants I am definitely sceptical of. I have rarely used them until now, save on very dry and slightly coarse maize seed beds where I use Sil-wet which is an organosilicone and to be honest I have been quite pleased with it, but do not see the need to use it all of the time.

This oil in autumn pre-ems etc strikes me as a bit of a money spinner TBH and I have seen a lot of recs where it is used. Maybe Somerset is just plenty wet enough most autumns but I am generally quite pleased with the performance of most pre-em chemistry I use.

Regarding Defy, when I first began it was hard to find any agronomist that had anything good to say about it, though bashing Syngenta is nearly a competitive sport in some argonomic circles anyway. Over time there are people who have admitted they are what I would say grudgingly accepting how useful it is. It is a compound from the thiocarbamate lot which is the same one Avadex belongs to. It is used a fair bit in Aus due to their on-going battle with ryegrass.

I have not seen results with it first hand myself I must admit but will do so for the first time this year. Time will tell if it is as effective as the usual Flufenacet, DFF and Flurtamone mix I have used to great effect in the past. I am only using it at 3L (plus flufenacet et al) because the cost becomes extreme, however, with the blackgrass in the location now totally resistant to SUs it has become a choice of do something hefty in terms of residual now and have a half clean crop some spring or do nothing, wait until spring and then spray the lot off with roundup because I can't stop the stuff after it has emerged.

I am hoping it will be a straight forward job, with low levels of BG/Brome about, now BLWs and so the obvious thing to do is just take out the wild oats in April and leave it at that. Or at least I hope that is what will happen.

If it doesn't work then I shall report back and thus appreciate that people much older and wiser than me can now tell me: 'told you so'.

Lastly, I am not using the genuine branded product either.

 

[snipe]

frontier have recomended c cure paraffinic oil £3.50/ha. agrivista think it is the wrong thing to use..

 

[Rob E]

excellent example! Why are you using a non-ionic organosilicone WETTER with pre- em chemistry applied to soil!? They are for applying to the leaf, spreading and helping chem through wax layer.

 

[Rob E]

frontier have recomended c cure paraffinic oil £3.50/ha. agrivista think it is the wrong thing to use..

it is if it is still a short chain length oil

 

[ollie989898]

excellent example! Why are you using a non-ionic organosilicone WETTER with pre- em chemistry applied to soil!? They are for applying to the leaf, spreading and helping chem through wax layer.

It does all that and more, assists with pesticide retention and improves the distribution of soil applied products- these are manufacturers claims, not mine.

 

[ollie989898]

frontier have recomended c cure paraffinic oil £3.50/ha. agrivista think it is the wrong thing to use..

Then I would use it across the lot just to upset Agrovista.

 

[Rob E]

It does all that and more, assists with pesticide retention and improves the distribution of soil applied products- these are manufacturers claims, not mine.

You should ask to see their trials. I have....got nothing. Could you explain to me how it improves retention in soil?
You cannot spread a chemical onto soil, you can only increase droplet number and decrease those under 100 microns fo better coverage. A heavy oil will maintain a decent fan angle, hopefully have a positive charge to bind chem to clay particles in soil and reduce drift/improve coverage. Organosilicone is not this.
This is what I have seen and learnt, not read as claims.