Price of Farmland

Al R

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
West Wales
Imposing stamp duty tax on the buyer is lunacy.
Its hard enough scraping together money to buy land without the added burden of finding stamp duty which you cant borrow.
So if something was say £1,000,000, stamp of around £145k? What’s the capital gains on it? Surely it makes a £1m property down to £850k because of stamp duty?
 

ajd132

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Suffolk
Define a small farmer? I don't believe the scheme is designed to help young/new entrants any more. In fact, I don't think the government give a fudge and haven't for some years- they were obliged to pay the money because of EU rules and so they have shifted the goal posts to get something tangible out of it, it just so happened their environmental policies were a shower.

The fact of the matter is huge sums of money as a reward for owning land is a nonsense. If you want to support farmers on the marshes or in the uplands because they support specific habitats as a by product for what they do then fine, these folk can individually apply and be paid any amount of money if they are willing to do what the clipboards deem a good idea but being paid merely because you have 4000 acres of Salisbury plain and grow wheat on it is a nonsense.

If production drops, that is no bad thing either in my view as it only aids the remaining players in the game. If people sell up or rent out again newer entrants can have a go or nearby businesses can expand.

People are quick to claim- 'ah but the ancillary trades will be affected'- these trades have been consolidating for years and whilst the forum likes to have fun at Clive and Co because of the rise of direct drilling and fudge all input spend ultimately the industry is moving that way anyway. Look at the number of threads here demonstrating a steady redirect in the thinking of producers across all the sectors? I can't keep up with them all; lots of new ideas are being tried, discussed or torn apart all with the aim of making people more money whilst taking up less of their time.

Who here honestly believes machinery, steel, diesel or labour are going to cease their rise in cost? People rightly point out that prices are largely the same at in 1970 so it's obvious the cost of the product isn't going to significantly change barring some global locust plague . You can only conclude that the industry at large will gradually shift in practice and methods and the old ones will be looked back as impractical or uneconomic, just as we look at churns, 50kg sacks of fert and zig-zag harrows today- worked at the time but just not valid any more.

With the above in mind, the industry is going to see a new phase in it's history I think over the coming decades whether subsidies are paid or not. Innovation or just externally-driven change in the arable world is being mirrored in the livestock sectors; just as an example agrochemicals are being lost or curtailed whilst wormers and antibiotics are receiving increasing scrutiny from a range of different stakeholders. In some ways the industry I feel has an exciting challenge ahead of it as it shakes itself out of the 1990's end of session hangover and steers in a direction where it produces smarter instead of the past's near mandatory self-flagellation with respect to the environment, animal welfare, producers' wallets or their lifestyles.
Great post. Bring it on. Am I the only one incredibly optimistic at the future? Subs going will be the best thing for farming long term.
 

Kidds

Member
Horticulture
Think stamp duty around 45k on a million.
Could be £38k, could be £58k. Depends what you are buying,house, second house, land, it all makes a difference.

Capital Gains tax is a tax on the gain so selling price minus whatever you paid for it. If it’s a house and your main dwelling (principle private residence) then it is free of CGT.
 

crazy_bull

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Huntingdon
Sometimes hear that but where is it? Anyone know of any land owned by pension/insurance companies? We all know who owns what around us but I've never heard of anyone renting land off a pension fund
Tends/tended to be in the more fluidly traded counties of Cambridgeshire, and more so in Lincolnshire. They have a lot of land that isn't 'old estates', (if that makes sense), and inbig enough blocks to make it worthwhile buying, a few hundred acres here and there aren't worth bothering with.

C B
 
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graham99

Member
It's clearly designed as a 'we will have some of that money you are transferring about, thank you' type tax. I'm all in favour of abolishing such taxes entirely, provided alternatives are suggested that introduce tax in the right areas, fairly and which provide the necessary revenue for the appropriate level of public spending.
beleave it or not , a fair tax across the borad with no tax deductions , like a 1% trans action tax , would see every one paying less tax , it would see a lot of acounants on the dole though , as there would be no need for fancy accounting ,
at the moment in kiwi land , every one is getting a sub from the govt , a lot of people have not worked out the person on the dole , buying his bread and milk , rent etc , is a govt handout to the business that is providing the bread , milk and rent
 

stewart

Member
Horticulture
Location
Bay of Plenty NZ
beleave it or not , a fair tax across the borad with no tax deductions , like a 1% trans action tax , would see every one paying less tax , it would see a lot of acounants on the dole though , as there would be no need for fancy accounting ,
at the moment in kiwi land , every one is getting a sub from the govt , a lot of people have not worked out the person on the dole , buying his bread and milk , rent etc , is a govt handout to the business that is providing the bread , milk and rent
If you are wanting to reduce the amount of income tax paid then simply increase GST, user pays, those that spend more pay more tax. We currently have no capital Gains Tax in NZ, long may it continue, it is a jealousy tax and easily avoidable if roll over relief is in place, however this does tend to drive the price of land and other assets higher and out of the reach off those that have not sold an asset.
 

glasshouse

Member
Location
lothians
The way into farming for many was to rent grass parks and build up a flock or herd, then move to a tenancy.
Govt has stopped that by offering landowners stupid sums of money to plant trees or grow wildflowers
And movement regs have made it less attractive where it still exists.
Stamp duty has put buying land even further outof reach.
Gordon browns pension raid forced everyone into property and created a bubble
 

midlandslad

Member
Location
Midlands
It is a cracking farm. Free draining wold land. There are quite a few parcels of more “average” land but those wold farms don’t come up very often.
Don’t know the reason for sale. But if I had £8 million I’d buy it, no doubt about it.
Do you know if the Binbrook farm got sold? I see the tender deadline has passed and not marked sold.
 

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