Price of Farmland

D14

Member
Probably not but an earlier post referred to family farms only carrying on because they’re not properly costing their time, how much is a farmer worth? £10 hour, £15 overtime? There have been plenty of threads on here where that would be mocked as appropriate pay for an employee yet if the farmer was working 60-80 hours a week, quite possible if they’re determined to carry on whatever that would be £700-££1000 a week, and they could be working 7 days a week, 52 weeks of the year. Reality is they could get by on an awful lot less than that depending on how careful they were , they could get by on far less than minimum wage, no employee would stand for that and anyone buisness minded would say it’s not worth it but for those who are determined to carry on,they need little more than a roof over their head and food to put on the table

These people who say farmers don’t cost their time fail to realise the farmer is probably living in a rent equivalent house worth £24,000/year. All of the household bills are paid by the business, the vehicles paid etc.

So if the farmer pays himself £1/hour in actual wages, he’s probably in reality on well over £30,000/year. Just because their wage slip doesn’t say £50,000/year doesn’t mean they don’t pay themselves.

The shrewd farmer has his LTD trading business pay all his bills and any profit at 20%. Then pays himself the minimal wage. All at the same time as owning assets privately not in the business. That’s the guy who gets criticised for not paying himself properly.
 
These people who say farmers don’t cost their time fail to realise the farmer is probably living in a rent equivalent house worth £24,000/year. All of the household bills are paid by the business, the vehicles paid etc.

So if the farmer pays himself £1/hour in actual wages, he’s probably in reality on well over £30,000/year. Just because their wage slip doesn’t say £50,000/year doesn’t mean they don’t pay themselves.

The shrewd farmer has his LTD trading business pay all his bills and any profit at 20%. Then pays himself the minimal wage. All at the same time as owning assets privately not in the business. That’s the guy who gets criticised for not paying himself properly.
a rent equivalent house worth £24,000/year, says who? mabye the older retired generation are but theyll be needing their bills paid just the same as the younger generation who are also likely to have mortgages, siblings dont pay themselves out either and then theres the possibility of the working farmer also having to cover home fees
 

DrWazzock

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
Depends how you want to live.
This house has doubled up as a care home for about 15 years for various of the oldies giving them a hopefully better end of life experience than being miles away in a care home. Testing at times but in balance seemed the right way and saved a fortune.
All last week I was sawing logs to keep three households going through the winter and there is a limitless supply of it here just keeping the place tidy.
I have space to service my own car, farm vehicles and machinery and my brother has room here to make garden furniture, chicken arks when he isn’t busy with the sheep.
We could sell up for a considerable sum but would have to buy another house and would then have no business premises. The direct drawings might be small but there are a whole load of other benefits.
If you move in to town it’s hand to mouth with an employer, not saying it’s wrong to do that but it’s my least preferred option.

There is quite a bit of land coming up for sale locally including an 800 acre farm on the wolds and 200 aces down here in the valley. Averages about £6k to £10k per acre all depending off the top of my head. £8.1 million for 810 acres good wold land. £1.35 million for 235 acres off the wolds.
Well out of my reach.Couldnt make it stack up anyway round.
 
These people who say farmers don’t cost their time fail to realise the farmer is probably living in a rent equivalent house worth £24,000/year. All of the household bills are paid by the business, the vehicles paid etc.

So if the farmer pays himself £1/hour in actual wages, he’s probably in reality on well over £30,000/year. Just because their wage slip doesn’t say £50,000/year doesn’t mean they don’t pay themselves.

The shrewd farmer has his LTD trading business pay all his bills and any profit at 20%. Then pays himself the minimal wage. All at the same time as owning assets privately not in the business. That’s the guy who gets criticised for not paying himself properly.
A farm house is what it is, a house on the farm, a roof over your head, somewhere to live, a theoretical rental value adds absolutely nothing, infact these large farm houses can be a drain on resources in upkeep when a house half the size would be more than adequate.
I’m sure many if starting fromscratch would build something much more modest today.
If I tried telling the lorry driver down the road that his wage was actually 10k more than he’s paid because his house could be rented out for that he’d probably tell me to fek off as he’d worked hard to pay it off.
To my mind that’s the purpose of buying assets such as a house or land, once you’ve paid it off its yours , if times come hard that’s money you don’t have to find
 

DrWazzock

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
A farm house is what it is, a house on the farm, a roof over your head, somewhere to live, a theoretical rental value adds absolutely nothing, infact these large farm houses can be a drain on resources in upkeep when a house half the size would be more than adequate.
I’m sure many if starting fromscratch would build something much more modest today.
If I tried telling the lorry driver down the road that his wage was actually 10k more than he’s paid because his house could be rented out for that he’d probably tell me to fek off as he’d worked hard to pay it off.
To my mind that’s the purpose of buying assets such as a house or land, once you’ve paid it off its yours , if times come hard that’s money you don’t have to find
Very true that often the house is bigger than required harking back to days when workers lived in. Also difficult to heat and expensive generally to repair and with high council tax. If I had a choice I would go for land with a bungalow and leave the fancy houses to the lifestyle buyers. I have often thought of selling the house off and buying more land with a bungalow on it. Mrs won’t hear of it though.
 

DrWazzock

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
In any case now I don’t think scale is the answer. Brains and making a good use of a small place is the way forward, broadening your business base so it’s not reliant entirely on farming.
Buying farmland now is for people looking for a long term home for a pile of ready cash, with any possible profit from production being an incidental bonus.
You wouldn’t go into the dragons den and say you were going to buy farmland as a viable business proposition. They would laugh you down the stairs.
 
Very true that often the house is bigger than required harking back to days when workers lived in. Also difficult to heat and expensive generally to repair and with high council tax. If I had a choice I would go for land with a bungalow and leave the fancy houses to the lifestyle buyers. I have often thought of selling the house off and buying more land with a bungalow on it. Mrs won’t hear of it though.
House prices and particularly country houses have increased significantly in my lifetime. There was a time when farms were valued by the acre and the farm house came with it as the house added nothing whatsoever to the earning potential of the farm. They still don’t add anything really but over the years the housing market has risen faster than the land market, and more relevant perhaps the earnings from farming haven’t kept pace with other jobs which is why more attention is now payed to the open market value of the house...............but living in a bigger house won’t make you any better off, it might be more pleasant in some ways but it’s not without its costs either.
 

DrWazzock

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
All this printed money is inflating asset monetary
values but is weakening or watering down the return on every pound invested.
We might feel well off on valuation of our assets but in reality those assets are becoming worthless in terms of earning us a living.
What really matters is producing stuff at a profit and there seems to be less and less of that around. I can feel a crash in asset values coming once people realise they are generating little or no return.
What is an airliner worth that sits on a runway for months on end? Scrap price really.
Land retains a certain security value so won’t plummet any time soon but it’s productive worth is now maybe only 25% of it present valuation the rest of its worth being for security, tax avoidance and amenity.
 

midlandslad

Member
Location
Midlands
Depends how you want to live.
This house has doubled up as a care home for about 15 years for various of the oldies giving them a hopefully better end of life experience than being miles away in a care home. Testing at times but in balance seemed the right way and saved a fortune.
All last week I was sawing logs to keep three households going through the winter and there is a limitless supply of it here just keeping the place tidy.
I have space to service my own car, farm vehicles and machinery and my brother has room here to make garden furniture, chicken arks when he isn’t busy with the sheep.
We could sell up for a considerable sum but would have to buy another house and would then have no business premises. The direct drawings might be small but there are a whole load of other benefits.
If you move in to town it’s hand to mouth with an employer, not saying it’s wrong to do that but it’s my least preferred option.

There is quite a bit of land coming up for sale locally including an 800 acre farm on the wolds and 200 aces down here in the valley. Averages about £6k to £10k per acre all depending off the top of my head. £8.1 million for 810 acres good wold land. £1.35 million for 235 acres off the wolds.
Well out of my reach.Couldnt make it stack up anyway round.

Looks a cracking wolds farm. Do you know the reason for the sale?

Is there much else lined up to come to the market in the area?
 

DrWazzock

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
House prices and particularly country houses have increased significantly in my lifetime. There was a time when farms were valued by the acre and the farm house came with it as the house added nothing whatsoever to the earning potential of the farm. They still don’t add anything really but over the years the housing market has risen faster than the land market, and more relevant perhaps the earnings from farming haven’t kept pace with other jobs which is why more attention is now payed to the open market value of the house...............but living in a bigger house won’t make you any better off, it might be more pleasant in some ways but it’s not without its costs either.
If was renting this house I’d be paying £1000 per month but as you say it doesn’t make us “better off” in terms of earning a living. I have never been a “house” person anyway and was happy living in a semidetached bungalow for many years. There is a quite a tall chimney here that looks decidedly dodgy with more smoke coming out the side than the top. It will need rebuilding soon and with modern scafolding regs etc probably will be little change out of £10k unlike last time it was rebuilt when the builder built a platform round it as it went up and my father threw the bricks up to him.
We also have a vast area of asbestos roofs on the sheds getting to end of life. Will be a big bill for a 200 acre farm. It’s not all profit. There is always something needs doing to keep things right otherwise it can soon go downhill. Farm road alone costs about £1k a year in spraying and chipping costs, done every five years.
 

DrWazzock

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
Looks a cracking wolds farm. Do you know the reason for the sale?

Is there much else lined up to come to the market in the area?
It is a cracking farm. Free draining wold land. There are quite a few parcels of more “average” land but those wold farms don’t come up very often.
Don’t know the reason for sale. But if I had £8 million I’d buy it, no doubt about it.
 

D14

Member
A farm house is what it is, a house on the farm, a roof over your head, somewhere to live, a theoretical rental value adds absolutely nothing, infact these large farm houses can be a drain on resources in upkeep when a house half the size would be more than adequate.
I’m sure many if starting fromscratch would build something much more modest today.
If I tried telling the lorry driver down the road that his wage was actually 10k more than he’s paid because his house could be rented out for that he’d probably tell me to fek off as he’d worked hard to pay it off.
To my mind that’s the purpose of buying assets such as a house or land, once you’ve paid it off its yours , if times come hard that’s money you don’t have to find

Ok I’ll rephrase it then. A farmer who pays himself very little has the same standard of living as a person earning over £50,000 a year.
 

D14

Member
A farm house is what it is, a house on the farm, a roof over your head, somewhere to live, a theoretical rental value adds absolutely nothing, infact these large farm houses can be a drain on resources in upkeep when a house half the size would be more than adequate.
I’m sure many if starting fromscratch would build something much more modest today.
If I tried telling the lorry driver down the road that his wage was actually 10k more than he’s paid because his house could be rented out for that he’d probably tell me to fek off as he’d worked hard to pay it off.
To my mind that’s the purpose of buying assets such as a house or land, once you’ve paid it off its yours , if times come hard that’s money you don’t have to find

Somebody selling up that included the house with the land is very poorly advised I’m afraid. A farmhouse even needing work with a a couple of acres is worth, depending on postcode, £600k and upwards. In a good postcode your talking about towards £1 million. Go a step further and add 20-30 acres to the farmhouse and perhaps some stables suddenly your at £1.5 million and haven’t even sold the land or farm buildings yet.
It’s all post code relevant but the farmyard would then have a value for storage or a business looking for a space of concrete with sheds and lastly there’s the bare farmland value to add on.
So if selling you split it up to maximise the value. Selling as a whole doesn’t make financial sense unless you’re a philanthropist.
 

midlandslad

Member
Location
Midlands
It is a cracking farm. Free draining wold land. There are quite a few parcels of more “average” land but those wold farms don’t come up very often.
Don’t know the reason for sale. But if I had £8 million I’d buy it, no doubt about it.

What is the other farm in Lincolnshire at market Rasen like, looks better value for money?
 

jendan

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Northumberland
Depends how you want to live.
This house has doubled up as a care home for about 15 years for various of the oldies giving them a hopefully better end of life experience than being miles away in a care home. Testing at times but in balance seemed the right way and saved a fortune.
All last week I was sawing logs to keep three households going through the winter and there is a limitless supply of it here just keeping the place tidy.
I have space to service my own car, farm vehicles and machinery and my brother has room here to make garden furniture, chicken arks when he isn’t busy with the sheep.
We could sell up for a considerable sum but would have to buy another house and would then have no business premises. The direct drawings might be small but there are a whole load of other benefits.
If you move in to town it’s hand to mouth with an employer, not saying it’s wrong to do that but it’s my least preferred option.

There is quite a bit of land coming up for sale locally including an 800 acre farm on the wolds and 200 aces down here in the valley. Averages about £6k to £10k per acre all depending off the top of my head. £8.1 million for 810 acres good wold land. £1.35 million for 235 acres off the wolds.
Well out of my reach.Couldnt make it stack up anyway round.
I thought Lincolnshire was all flat and didnt have any trees?
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

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    Votes: 80 42.3%
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    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 75-100%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 100% I’ve had enough of farming!

    Votes: 7 3.7%

Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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