Price of suckler replacements

[Happy]

It's OK jumping on the 'lets knock continentals' bandwagon.
Ok, some of them don't tick all the boxes, but many do.
Neighbour of mine has AA, and certainly has more cows running around with no calf/ stunted calf than you'd expect , so just plumping for "native" or "maternal" ain't all you might think.
More variation within a breed, than between breeds.
Was looking at Genus catalogue this morning having a brew, you'd be surprised how easy calving some of the BB bulls are.

(Hard calving bulls are also available)

There wouldn't be such a huge continental influence if they were all cr*p, and natives had sunshine coming out of their rs.

Didn't see this thread as being native v commercial thing myself.
More about the extreme beef heifers being kept for breeding more of the same and @johnspeehs opening observation of how the guys working that system manage to get the numbers to stack up.

Agree there are types of most breeds that will give you a cost efficient sucker cow. I think @AF Salers hit the nail on the head with the female shot putter comparison. Plenty of those go through the store ring and get bought by other suckler men for breeding up here.

 

[Lovegoodstock]

And there is one that sells a fair few in calf heifers at 2 sales in or next to Cumbria that has done it for years and due to that gets the premium. Seems a common view that r grade producers, nothing wrong with that, think or too happy to say that e/u grade cattle producers c section every other calf, in between the ones that die if you can get he mothers in calf in the first place. Ok best year ever last year but 2 out of 240, worst year was 5 out of 24 heifers, and that was when I milked, hefeirs were first to calve from a new bull, in calf to a piemontese where the calves weighed around a month old lamb!! Im vain yes, love to top marts, but not at a loss, view it costs less actually to feed a good un than a bad un, and grossing more money, good stockmanship, management, easily achieved. Bad stories, bad results, wrong stock in wrong hands, but that can be said of any type of cattle

 

[M-J-G]

In the commercial pig world there are male lines and female lines. Sows from a male line often resemble boars, just like females from more extreme terminal types of cattle have unnaturally masculine characteristics, like heavy muscling and poorer milk yields. A guy I know refers to them as "man cows"

But you'll not find a commercial sow herd made up of male line Sows, but then again pigs aren't a subsidised sector.

Subsidy and masculine breeding females seem to be correlated.

And before the self proclaimed fancy cattle superstars or shot putter owners think I'm having a poke at the terminal breeds. I've seen plenty of examples of maternal breeds that are becoming too heavily muscled to be properly maternal animal hence why I have kept referring to type, rather than breed.

 

[Lovegoodstock]

We milked very traditional british friesans, that would grade r5 after 17 months of milking if she wouldn't conceive. We would have odd proper beefy sort that milked poorly, but not overly fed they grazed but experts said cows don't milk unless you can see its backbone, look where Holstein has got us. I don't have many cows that would have killed at a u maybe e as a heifer, but I retain a few out of a favourite cow that milks conceives, also keep others that I get wrong that are maternal in looks and have the history but don't milk. As a norm and talk per centages I would agree show winners will milk less and give more hassle at calving, but there really does seem a view that if you have a decent beast in mart you have lost a fortune, with vets and losses and feeding creep. Its picking traits the same as plainer cattle.

 

[Henarar]

Topping the market may make the vendor feel like he's a good herd manger, but cost per calf, calves sold per cow bulled, calves sold per acre, age at sale, etc. are better indicators of performance.

That depends
you may have very low cost per calf but make a very low sale price
you may have loads of calves sold per cow but make a very low sale price
you may have loads of calves per acre but make a very low sale price
you may sell them young and make a very low sale price

After all, a calf making £50 more than everything else in the Market isn't much use if the cow calves every 13 months, you run every cow over excessive acres, the calf is older than everything else, or have to allocate a large chunk of a calves price to labour costs

but then you may not

Pretty much every advisor and astute farmer I've spoken to has suggested that topping the market is not important, and that seeking it is generally driven by vanity or ego.

agree it proves nothing really just that your animal made the most on the day, a two min buzz and those that do it MAY have very high costs and low output in £ per cow but then again they MAY NOT

 

[M-J-G]

That depends
you may have very low cost per calf but make a very low sale price
you may have loads of calves sold per cow but make a very low sale price
you may have loads of calves per acre but make a very low sale price
you may sell them young and make a very low sale price

but then you may not

agree it proves nothing really just that your animal made the most on the day, a two min buzz and those that do it MAY have very high costs and low output in £ per cow but then again they MAY NOT

I wasn't meaning any offence.

The point is that topping the market is nothing to brag about as it's only a very small insite into how successful a farmer is, and the whole picture has to be taken into account.

A market topping herd of calves, of a comparable age, where over one calf is sold per cow bulled, cows are stocked at less than one per acre, not much fert, no concentrate, and the guy keeps 150 of them part time, that would give the market topping brag an extra bit of gravity. This is an example, but without good managerial performance to back it up, a market topper means very little and is pretty unquantified.

 

[Henarar]

I wasn't meaning any offence.

The point is that topping the market is nothing to brag about as it's only a very small insite into how successful a farmer is, and the whole picture has to be taken into account.

A market topping herd of calves, of a comparable age, where over one cow is sold per cow bulled, cows are kept a less than one per acre, and the guy keeps 150 of them part time, that would give the market topping brag an extra bit of gravity. This is an example, but without good managerial performance to back it up, a market topper means very little and is pretty unquantified.

Quite agree
that's what I was getting at

 

[Baling Hay]

This might sound crazy to a lot of you guys but I have often thought that a Belgian Blue X Jersey would make a good suckler cow when put to a very strong terminal sire.

She would be a nice quiet cow, good milk & feet and wide pelvic area from the jersey, smaller size so can stock more per acre, easily sourced as calves and the BB should add some shape. Put that to a lengthy limousin or Charolais and you should get some good commercial calves.

 

[Northeastfarmer]

This might sound crazy to a lot of you guys but I have often thought that a Belgian Blue X Jersey would make a good suckler cow when put to a very strong terminal sire.

She would be a nice quiet cow, good milk & feet and wide pelvic area from the jersey, smaller size so can stock more per acre, easily sourced as calves and the BB should add some shape. Put that to a lengthy limousin or Charolais and you should get some good commercial calves.

One of my best cows is a Swiss brown x blue

 

[M-J-G]

This might sound crazy to a lot of you guys but I have often thought that a Belgian Blue X Jersey would make a good suckler cow when put to a very strong terminal sire.

She would be a nice quiet cow, good milk & feet and wide pelvic area from the jersey, smaller size so can stock more per acre, easily sourced as calves and the BB should add some shape. Put that to a lengthy limousin or Charolais and you should get some good commercial calves.

They'd be cheap since they are a byproduct.
Their ability to lay down fat would make me think they wouldn't be a cow for upland or roughing it in winter, if using a Char, you'd need a bull that would buck the breeds lean trend. Otherwise the progeny could be hard to get a finish on.

I used to have a couple Lim x Jersey cows, they always needed calcium at calving and they always had the poorest calves of all the cows, as did their daughters, none of that family were kept in the longer term.

One of my best cows is a Swiss brown x blue

I would believe that, I've seen a lot of Brown Swiss cattle on trips to Germany and they are a pretty hardy cow, with excellent feet, they are generally bit better fleshed that a Holstein, so the BB × may complement them quite well.

I'd bank on a Brown Swiss x more as a suckler than I would on a Jersey.

 

[rhuvid]

I'm slowly upping cow numbers. Ol chap usually bought few cows an calves every year. But now gone to buying dairy X calves to double suckle or foster. Also bought some heifers at weaning age. Using Saler on heifers an older cows for easier calving, an for replacements. Slowly increasing numbers each year. But on another note, having been at the market abit lately selling store lambs etc. I've noticed a few more men selling couple cows and calves, that haven't sold before. Are some men testing for BVD etc and instead of killing P.I cows etc, selling them for some other farmer to have the trouble?!??

 

[Top Tip.]

I'm slowly upping cow numbers. Ol chap usually bought few cows an calves every year. But now gone to buying dairy X calves to double suckle or foster. Also bought some heifers at weaning age. Using Saler on heifers an older cows for easier calving, an for replacements. Slowly increasing numbers each year. But on another note, having been at the market abit lately selling store lambs etc. I've noticed a few more men selling couple cows and calves, that haven't sold before. Are some men testing for BVD etc and instead of killing P.I cows etc, selling them for some other farmer to have the trouble?!??

Knowingly selling a pi is totally illegal and could result in a hefty fine to the perpetrator.

 

[Henarar]

I've noticed a few more men selling couple cows and calves, that haven't sold before. Are some men testing for BVD etc and instead of killing P.I cows etc, selling them for some other farmer to have the trouble?!??

or perhaps they just have to many or want to cut down or just need some cash

 

[rhuvid]

They were my thoughts @Henarar, when I was bidding on a cow an calf on Friday. Then my cousin starts chirping up, "whys he selling her?"

 

[Henarar]

They were my thoughts @Henarar, when I was bidding on a cow an calf on Friday. Then my cousin starts chirping up, "whys he selling her?"

did you ask ?

 

[Lovegoodstock]

I agree,been a few outfits sold from people that don't normally , their better end and younger cows so guess needing the money

 

[topground]

They were my thoughts @Henarar, when I was bidding on a cow an calf on Friday. Then my cousin starts chirping up, "whys he selling her?"

It occurs to me that there might be a better return selling an older cow with a calf at foot than selling her as a cull if you sell stores and have not caved in to Farm Assurance blackmail.

 

[Lovegoodstock]

Fatteners tend to split units and don't over pay for their value normally

 

[mixedfarming686]

https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/saler-x-heifers.154248/
These are some heifers we have for sale, Are main aim has been to have a low cost, high health system, predominately spring calving selling calves straight from the cows.

 

[tinsheet]

https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/saler-x-heifers.154248/
These are some heifers we have for sale, Are main aim has been to have a low cost, high health system, predominately spring calving selling calves straight from the cows.

Good hard cattle.