Prince Andrew

Exfarmer

Member
Location
Bury St Edmunds
You need to watch 'Jeffrey Epstein : Filthy Rich.'
It's a four part documentary on Netflix about this vile character and his vile friends and how young naive girls were manipulated and trafficked!
Prince Andrew is featured often , unsurprisingly...

Yes and did you watch the girls of 20 plus who complained that they had been raped repeatedly but carried on working for the guy for years. Then the girls who introduced their sisters to this appalling person.
Why did Guiffre not go after Clinton or Gates they must have a bob or two spare😂
 

JP1

Member
Livestock Farmer
Yes and did you watch the girls of 20 plus who complained that they had been raped repeatedly but carried on working for the guy for years. Then the girls who introduced their sisters to this appalling person.
Why did Guiffre not go after Clinton or Gates they must have a bob or two spare😂
Even more important that the (much more senior) man should show even more restraint
 

Lowland1

Member
Mixed Farmer
Thank you for that
There is a strong undercurrent of opinion here that ‘they’ were asking for it etc. A very different tone when it’s a matter of Bradford grooming gangs.
But then that’s a different ethnic background and tax bracket.
I don’t think I’ve said that or implied it although I don’t think the woman is particularly honest. I do wonder why the case hasn’t been brought in the UK. If it’s really about justice it doesn’t where the case is brought however let’s face it it’s about money so he’s being chased in the place where they think they’ll get the most money and a place where no sensible British person would ever go expecting a fair trial the USA of course. I find it hard to feel sore for the bloke but it’s all stacked against him
 

Exfarmer

Member
Location
Bury St Edmunds
Thank you for that
There is a strong undercurrent of opinion here that ‘they’ were asking for it etc. A very different tone when it’s a matter of Bradford grooming gangs.
But then that’s a different ethnic background and tax bracket.
I am not defending his actions which I think were immoral, but not illegal ( in the UK) unless proved otherwise. There has to come a point in a girls life when she has to take responsibility for her actions. If you watch the film it is obvious that the vast majority of the girls who got involved with Epstein, never went back a second time. Their reluctance to talk to the police demonstrates they did not think they had been criminally assaulted, but were obviously unhappy at what had occurred.
We here, believe this point is the age of 16 , other states are older, but many close neighbours in Europe have ages of consent far younger down to 12.
UK law says a girl under 13 cannot give consent in any form so sexual relations with such a girl is statutory rape.
The girls in Bradford were far younger, some as young as 10-11 years old. I think all of us would believe a man who abuses girls of that age, deserve severe punishment what ever colour their skin.
Epstein was an evil abuser who with out doubt, deserved to have been locked away for ever. Andrew is an immoral fool, who deserves ignominy but not in my opinion a criminal record. However stripping him of all privileges is probably in his eyes as bad as it can get.
If she proves that he raped her , and I have seen no sign of her stating this then, I will change my mind
 

czechmate

Member
Mixed Farmer
I don’t think I’ve said that or implied it although I don’t think the woman is particularly honest. I do wonder why the case hasn’t been brought in the UK. If it’s really about justice it doesn’t where the case is brought however let’s face it it’s about money so he’s being chased in the place where they think they’ll get the most money and a place where no sensible British person would ever go expecting a fair trial the USA of course. I find it hard to feel sore for the bloke but it’s all stacked against him


It’s not illegal to have sex with a 17 year old girl/woman in the uk
 

Muck Spreader

Member
Location
Limousin
I’ve seen it and a few others and to be honest I don’t buy the naive young girls bit. I most certainly do not support the behavior of any of these people but the young girls older men thing has been going on forever and there’s always a trade off.
There was nothing naïve about her. Apparently she had been living on the streets at 13 when she had first worked as prostitute and was into drugs. Her father subsequently found her and got her a job as a spa attendant at Trump's Mar-a-Lago resort, where Maxwell then offered her a job to work for Epstein.
 

Lowland1

Member
Mixed Farmer
There was nothing naïve about her. Apparently she had been living on the streets at 13 when she had first worked as prostitute and was into drugs. Her father subsequently found her and got her a job as a spa attendant at Trump's Mar-a-Lago resort, where Maxwell then offered her a job to work for Epstein.
We watched the Netflix documentary and my wife said to me more or less ‘ she’s a wrong in’ . It’s her word against his and he’s shown himself to be stupid and she’s anything but. Now he’s guilty by association . Fair trial? He doesn’t stand a chance.
 

BrianV

Member
Livestock Farmer
Having read quite a few books on various rock stars such as led zeppelin,rolling stones,etc I wonder if this new found morality of the general public is going to mean a banning of their music. They make Prince(no longer) look like a saint!
Rolling Stones Bill Wyman & 13 year old Mandy Smith might now look as if it's in need of a police investigation?
 

czechmate

Member
Mixed Farmer
We watched the Netflix documentary and my wife said to me more or less ‘ she’s a wrong in’ . It’s her word against his and he’s shown himself to be stupid and she’s anything but. Now he’s guilty by association . Fair trial? He doesn’t stand a chance.


It’s hardly fair to say « she’s a wrong un ». It’s down to her upbringing
 

le bon paysan

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Limousin, France
There is no suggestion Andrew was involved in the trafficking. Be aware there is a huge difference in the meaning of the word in UK and US law.
I know he wasn't. But Maxwell was convicted of trafficking girls and she was in the picture. In US minds does this have a bearing on a US case? She also alleges it was on the island once with Andrew and in the US that's
" trafficked"
 

Danllan

Member
Location
Sir Gar / Carms
No, but does the fact she alleges she was trafficked alter this?
I don't know. @Danllan
And does Ghislaine being found guilty of trafficking help?
After the age of sixteen is reached statutory rape can't apply. The question then will become one of consent; that will depend upon on capacity and situation - i.e. was she in a fit mental state to agree to have sex or not?

Due to drugs, alcohol, or coercion / bullying, she may well not have been in a fit state to agree or capable of disagreeing, and that may have been applicable over either a very limited or very extended period. She could well have been a rather unfortunate girl, abused and taken advantage of, plied with whatever and pushed / forced into having sex with whoever her 'handlers' wished.

On the other hand, she may well have been a bit naive - maybe just a typical seventeen year old. But could very well have been fully aware of what was going on and enjoyed the 'ride', so to speak, of jet-setting, meeting the rich and famous and of being spoilt. She may even have got a turn-on from it.

Ghislaine Maxwell's conviction makes the question of the accuser having been trafficked no longer moot - in the US anyway. So, presumably, the questions it will all turn on are whether or not sex between them took place and whether she was capable of giving and did give consent.

Bare in mind that the law will have changed since the time of the alleged offences.
 

Exfarmer

Member
Location
Bury St Edmunds
After the age of sixteen is reached statutory rape can't apply. The question then will become one of consent; that will depend upon on capacity and situation - i.e. was she in a fit mental state to agree to have sex or not?

Due to drugs, alcohol, or coercion / bullying, she may well not have been in a fit state to agree or capable of disagreeing, and that may have been applicable over either a very limited or very extended period. She could well have been a rather unfortunate girl, abused and taken advantage of, plied with whatever and pushed / forced into having sex with whoever her 'handlers' wished.

On the other hand, she may well have been a bit naive - maybe just a typical seventeen year old. But could very well have been fully aware of what was going on and enjoyed the 'ride', so to speak, of jet-setting, meeting the rich and famous and of being spoilt. She may even have got a turn-on from it.

Ghislaine Maxwell's conviction makes the question of the accuser having been trafficked no longer moot - in the US anyway. So, presumably, the questions it will all turn on are whether or not sex between them took place and whether she was capable of giving and did give consent.

Bare in mind that the law will have changed since the time of the alleged offences.
But she is sueing in the US where laws are different and age of consent in New York may be 18
 

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