Profiles

There are quite a few posters on the Forum, who for whatever reason resent SFP.

To sort "the wheat from the chaff", it would be useful to know where these are coming from.

Can I suggest that members update their profile to show whether they are "active farmers" under the current Legal Definition and claim SFP.

I have already done so.
 

grumpy

Member
Location
Fife
why does it matter the folks against it wont be getting it,the sfp is an anathema that should be consigned to the history books as it is a payment to the super markets not farmers.that from former farmer who never received it due to the type of farming i done and now a shyte shoveller.the best system would be the cost of production and super market pays you a reasonable profit.
 
What is the current legal definition?

There does not appear to be a definitive description, but current legislation and HMRC treatment appears to suggest that anyone who either actively farms the land, or takes upon himself the burden of GAEC and Cross Compliance is an active farmer.

Personally I struggle to see, how the person who grows say Grain, which he sells, can be differentiated from someone who grass which he sells on a 6 month grazing tenancy.

The distinction between "active farmers" and "slipper farmers" in my opinion will never work.

Capping maximum SFP receipts will work, but the costs of trying to police the proposed distinction between Active and Slipper Farmers, far outweighs any financial benefit.
 
Where do you place company directors ?

A Limited Company in law is a separate legal entity.

Company directors are often but not always shareholders.

If not shareholders they are simply employed by the company, and therefore do not come into the equation.

If a Farming Business is structured as a Ltd. Co., it is easy enough to pay individual shareholders a mixture of Salary/Wages and Dividends that comply with the Rules for both HMRC and SFP.

I do not claim SFP as an individual, but through a Ltd. Co. that is involved in the Agricultural Side. All perfectly Legal under current legislation.
 

Tim W

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Wiltshire
Well i am not sure that any of the above legal definitions help me?

To me a farmer is someone involved in the primary production of food for humans at a land based level---does that make sense?

So i would call myself a farmer and i don't collect any SFP

I don't like the SFP system because it (like many systems) is manipulated and misused by land owners/landlords/and the whole farming industry ---but i am not sure what the best alternative is---

I think that the ideal position is one in which there is no govt help for farming and everyone pays the market price for food, how you get there with the minimum unrest i do not know
 

Derrick Hughes

Member
Location
Ceredigion
I think that grass sellers should be put in the catagory of crop growers. What's the diferance between selling grain to a dairy farmer or selling grass, if he decided to bring his animals alOng to eat that crop rather that cart it to him so what
 

DRC

Member
I am an active farmer,mainly tenanted. Do all the work myself and not against SFP even though it may have come over that way in some of my posts,just get annoyed with it being paid to slipper farmers.
 

Derrick Hughes

Member
Location
Ceredigion
I am an active farmer,mainly tenanted. Do all the work myself and not against SFP even though it may have come over that way in some of my posts,just get annoyed with it being paid to slipper farmers.
Can you define a wearer of said slipper, I employ 2 full timers but due to health reason don't farm actively myself but work from the office in my slippers, shall I get my wellies out of the closet and walk through some cow sh!t to qualify
 

grumpy

Member
Location
Fife
Can you define a wearer of said slipper, I employ 2 full timers but due to health reason don't farm actively myself but work from the office in my slippers, shall I get my wellies out of the closest and walk through some cow sh!t to qualify
no give yer sfp to a young couple starting out in farming who get no dole cheque(n)
 
Well i am not sure that any of the above legal definitions help me.
To me a farmer is someone involved in the primary production of food for humans at a land based level---does that make sense?

Yes that is the ideal situation in an ideal world. The problem we have, is that we are in a Global Economy, and the cost of production due to lower wages, or "slave labour" is a lot less in other countries, and they can undercut UK producers.

So i would call myself a farmer and i don't collect any SFP.

I can't argue with that, you are however risking making yourself uncompetitive due to those competing farmers, who do collect SFP, and therefore can afford to undercut you.

I don't like the SFP system because it (like many systems) is manipulated and misused by land owners/landlords/and the whole farming industry.

Forgive me for sounding cynical, but I suspect that if you were a recipient of SFP, your attitude would be completely different. It is the fact that you are outside the system looking in, that colours your judgement. The original CAP reform proposals, were that anyone who had claimed in 2011, would be allocated one unit for each hectare declared in 2013. The new CAP regime will not start until 2015, and many not previously in SFP I know have purchased one or two entitlements this year to hedge their bets. Entitlements are cheap enough, and a Gamble worth taking you might be well advised to take this route.

---but i am not sure what the best alternative is---

Come up with a workable alternative, and you will have Agricultural Ministers from all over Europe, flocking to your door.

I think that the ideal position is one in which there is no govt help for farming and everyone pays the market price for food, how you get there with the minimum unrest i do not know

In a Global Economy and while the European Union continues with CAP, this is impossible.
 

Tim W

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Wiltshire
Yes that is the ideal situation in an ideal world. The problem we have, is that we are in a Global Economy, and the cost of production due to lower wages, or "slave labour" is a lot less in other countries, and they can undercut UK producers.



I can't argue with that, you are however risking making yourself uncompetitive due to those competing farmers, who do collect SFP, and therefore can afford to undercut you.



Forgive me for sounding cynical, but I suspect that if you were a recipient of SFP, your attitude would be completely different. It is the fact that you are outside the system looking in, that colours your judgement. The original CAP reform proposals, were that anyone who had claimed in 2011, would be allocated one unit for each hectare declared in 2013. The new CAP regime will not start until 2015, and many not previously in SFP I know have purchased one or two entitlements this year to hedge their bets. Entitlements are cheap enough, and a Gamble worth taking you might be well advised to take this route.



Come up with a workable alternative, and you will have Agricultural Ministers from all over Europe, flocking to your door.



In a Global Economy and while the European Union continues with CAP, this is impossible.

Agree with just about all of this!
But if i was a recipient of SFP it wouldn't change the ideal theoretical situation that subsidies create dependancy and distort the market

Once upon a time i kept suckler cows and could have claimed headage on the calves/youngstock but i didn't---because;
1) It was too much hassle for 40 animals a year
2) I was trying to do it 'right' and prove a point

It worked for me , i multi suckled and found a market for organic veal/baby beef that made a profit without payments

I may in the future rent land with SFP entitlement but i bet i will then have to pay a premium equal to that payment to the landlord!

I will work on the workable alternative and if i come up with it will sell it to the highest bidder! ;)
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

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Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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