Profit (!) Per Ewe.

[GTB]

T


that's the point, a lot of farmers are not doing there own figures

And those that do can't be believed half the time.

 

[spin cycle]

i ponder the same question as op with my own small flock....but in my own case i have the land....it's in stewardship....i'm about the farm anyway ...so the sheep are a 'bolt on' enterprise....so perhaps the question should be 'how much can i make per ewe?'....then it's all about grass/sr....whether you can justify fertilising grass for sheep?....amount of conc used and so on

in my four years i've varied a gm of £60 to -£15/ewe.....in years they make a profit they help the fixed costs...in years they don't they don't add much (fortunately)....in my own case i've decided only use them to mop up 'spare time'...i won't be going out renting and expanding...i'll just concentrate on doing the sheep i have as efficiently as i can

so my answer to COP is if you have the time spare then go for it....but if the sheep start to impinge on your other work don't JMO

 

[Sandpit Farm]

I revisit this and scribble things down all the time.

Labour cost really muddies the pool! People talk about margins per ewe but some have included all labour into costs and some haven't.

 

[IH 684]

I'm still yet to meet a poor farmer. Farming is a very secret industry which good money can be made. I know farmers who buy houses to rent out as a way of getting rid of money. A thread on here says £6000 was made in a year from sheep, the majority of the year the sheep are self sufficient, for arguments sake sheep take 3 months of work per year if you add the days up, the rest of the year people don't sit a
about, they might be tending cattle which may earn another £6000, then a few month of tractor work another £6000, then arable work another £6000, at the end of the year all the grands here and there add up which equate to not a bad wage never mind all the little cash jobs here and there. Then the goverment handouts. Farmers annoy me who say there's no money in farming. Liberal with the truth is an understatement

 

[IH 684]

View attachment 97006
Pete sold a few lambs last week............

Just cashed in the SFP

 

[Derrick Hughes]

So if you have to employ a man full time to run a big flock it's a waste of time, even for someone doing it all themselves they would make more money letting the ground out and doing something with their time that made them some money

 

[ED.D]

Aye-up,

I had an interesting over-the-gate conversation with some bloke the other day. He was surprised to see lambs in January and was asking various questions as to how we run our little sheep hobby. Despite me telling him several times how we are only dabbling at the moment, he seemed very interested in profit margins and the cost of everything. We have had people thinking sheep are worth £9000 (yes, nine thousand pounds) each.

He asked how much I was looking to make per ewe. When I replied that I was sure they would lose money, he couldn't believe it. Various comments about business and industry standards followed. I listened intently, trying to keep my patience and do a bit of good PR.

Eventually he asked how much a proper sheep farmer would look to make per ewe. Even after explaining the many variables of land ownership vs renting and different sheep farming systems, he was still amazed that I couldn't give him a straight answer. I finished by telling him that a 500 ewe sheep farmer would probably just have to be happy with a modest wage and forget about actual profit.

He said we were all mad. I went off and found myself agreeing with his thoughts!

I have asked before on TFF how come no-one ever makes any money. Is there such a thing as a profit margin in sheep? Am I wasting my time thinking we have anything but a hobby here? There is 37 acres of unused land adjoining my fields, but am I wasting my time asking if I can rent it? There is 110 acres of underused grass within 2 miles of here. With our 14acres the adjoining 37 would make a nice little block, but should I stay just hobbying?

I know it's a numbers game, but there must be some sort of idea about small flock margins!

Help me out. I could crunch all the numbers but there's nothing better than experienced opinion. Just put aside all the "must be mad" stuff for a while!!

Cheers, Pete.

37 unused acres to rent? Are you nuts man!!!
Go and offer to tidy it up for them for a modest fee then you stand a chance of making some money.then increase the fee year on year worth a go. Had 40 acres in a city was paid 4k to look after it and had the crop to sell, did this for a number of years. Worth a punt.

 

[spin cycle]

So if you have to employ a man full time to run a big flock it's a waste of time, even for someone doing it all themselves they would make more money letting the ground out and doing something with their time that made them some money

alot of estates round my way had cattle sheep 20 years ago shepards/stockmen....now rent the ground out......when i was starting out i couldn't rent grass for love/money.....now it's available all over place

fortunately found love....but still waiting for the money

 

[David.]

Paying £200 for theaves at Thame will make the job look slightly different than somebody breeding their own replacements surely, and putting up buildings to lamb in as opposed to lambing outside in May.
Everyones figures will be different.
Surprised nobody has put up the Mitchell and Webb clip yet

 

[neilo]

I'm still yet to meet a poor farmer. Farming is a very secret industry which good money can be made. I know farmers who buy houses to rent out as a way of getting rid of money. A thread on here says £6000 was made in a year from sheep, the majority of the year the sheep are self sufficient, for arguments sake sheep take 3 months of work per year if you add the days up, the rest of the year people don't sit a
about, they might be tending cattle which may earn another £6000, then a few month of tractor work another £6000, then arable work another £6000, at the end of the year all the grands here and there add up which equate to not a bad wage never mind all the little cash jobs here and there. Then the goverment handouts. Farmers annoy me who say there's no money in farming. Liberal with the truth is an understatement

The £6k mentioned was per 100 ewes, which wouldn't even take 3 months up in total I would hope. However, I very much suspect that person was living in cloud cuckoo land, or at least wearing rose tinted specs when he arrived at that PROFIT figure. Maybe, if he was stocking lowland ground at 1 ewe/ac and not having to buy any inputs at all, or replace any, or.......

I'm in a 'Sheep Club' thingy with Menterabusiness in Wales, and we are in the process of compiling costs and comparing/benchmarking between us and against the Aberystwyth published figures. There is a large range of variables effecting the profit on each farm, but certainly none are making anywhere near £60/ewe in profit! The top third on the Aber figures are at £35.65 per ewe, before rent & finance, a figure which wouldn't be far wrong from what I've seen.

Your farmer above will be earning £24k a year, plus his 'government handouts', all from a relatively small farm with a handful of stock? I'm obviously doing something very wrong.

 

[dazza b]

Yes but paying £200 plus for theaves ain't gonna make you money when people start paying silly money for theaves you know it's either a hobby or a stitch up.

 

[Only]

The £6k mentioned was per 100 ewes, which wouldn't even take 3 months up in total I would hope. However, I very much suspect that person was living in cloud cuckoo land, or at least wearing rose tinted specs when he arrived at that PROFIT figure. Maybe, if he was stocking lowland ground at 1 ewe/ac and not having to buy any inputs at all, or replace any, or.......

I'm in a 'Sheep Club' thingy with Menterabusiness in Wales, and we are in the process of compiling costs and comparing/benchmarking between us and against the Aberystwyth published figures. There is a large range of variables effecting the profit on each farm, but certainly none are making anywhere near £60/ewe in profit! The top third on the Aber figures are at £35.65 per ewe, before rent & finance, a figure which wouldn't be far wrong from what I've seen.

Your farmer above will be earning £24k a year, plus his 'government handouts', all from a relatively small farm with a handful of stock? I'm obviously doing something very wrong.

keep us informed neil ,certainly sheep dont leave much profit after sfp,but what does at the moment in farming

 

[neilo]

Where's @KNconsulting gone? Her input would have been interesting on this.

 

[Sandpit Farm]

The £6k mentioned was per 100 ewes, which wouldn't even take 3 months up in total I would hope. However, I very much suspect that person was living in cloud cuckoo land, or at least wearing rose tinted specs when he arrived at that PROFIT figure. Maybe, if he was stocking lowland ground at 1 ewe/ac and not having to buy any inputs at all, or replace any, or.......

I'm in a 'Sheep Club' thingy with Menterabusiness in Wales, and we are in the process of compiling costs and comparing/benchmarking between us and against the Aberystwyth published figures. There is a large range of variables effecting the profit on each farm, but certainly none are making anywhere near £60/ewe in profit! The top third on the Aber figures are at £35.65 per ewe, before rent & finance, a figure which wouldn't be far wrong from what I've seen.

Your farmer above will be earning £24k a year, plus his 'government handouts', all from a relatively small farm with a handful of stock? I'm obviously doing something very wrong.

Neil, is that £35.65 AFTER labour or before? If it's after, it isn't too bad.

 

[Gulli]

In answer to your question @Cab-over Pete apparently the answer is 'it depends'
Money is a big secret in farming for some reason personally I just look at taxable profit. Yes there's some money in it, get on and grab those few acres if its what you want you might find most of your profit is sfp but so what.

 

[reverand]

although your labour has to have a value , figues put out by the likes of eblex for labour have no bearing on what your actualy pay yourself ,so on paper you do make a loss. i suppose most of us would love the farm to pay us the minimum wage.

 

[Sandpit Farm]

As a foot trimmer, I was worth about £30-40/hr but as a shepherd I was worth £10/hr (at most). So I would have been better off trimming cows feet and paying a shepherd to look after my sheep. Yet I still do it.

By this reckoning, why do sheep farmers farm sheep?? Is it enjoyment? Satisfaction?

If so, why not rent your land out (or rent less land if you are a grazier), buy 12 pretty Dartmoors or something and get a £35k job in town? That way, you get the satisfaction from the sheep and you get the money. Now I only have 60 or so sheep but it does make me think twice about expanding as it doesn't really make financial sense. (But I do still want to and I wonder if that is an ego or 'big number' thing).

I guess the question of, "will expanding your sheep enterprise expand your enjoyment?" Comes into play. If not, maintain the status quo an earn your money elsewhere.

 

[Cab-over Pete]

I would love to just go for it and get stuck in. Trouble is that thing called business. When we get the wet times I start thinking its a goer. Then we get busy spreading and I don't have time to blow my nose let alone tend sheep.

If it came strong frosts at lambing, I'm buggered. I should be spreading not lambing.

We are all enjoying it at the moment, but that's a long way off doing it for part of our living. I certainly don't want to go further for no gain. Whereas I love the spreading, I can't help wonder where we could be now if I had kept on with the sheep 20 years ago. But then it would probably be vice versa if I had.

There's no doubt I will keep on with the spreading. I know that job inside out and keep my costs down so as to make a profit every year. I'm not so sure that could happen with sheep even if I knew that job inside out.

 

[MF390T]

Is there any money to be made in suckler cows by time you buy fertilizer, straw/fodder, concentrates etc?
Loads of people getting rid of cows, 40-50 cow herds often being sold at local marts.
Surely there's a lot more money to be made from lambing ewes compared to calving cows?!
What are your thoughts please?

 

[Kevtherev]

Is there any money to be made in suckler cows by time you buy fertilizer, straw/fodder, concentrates etc?
Loads of people getting rid of cows, 40-50 cow herds often being sold at local marts.
Surely there's a lot more money to be made from lambing ewes compared to calving cows?!
What are your thoughts please?

Lots cutting down cows packing them up because of TB