Progress?

Goweresque

Member
Location
North Wilts
Perhaps the pound, dollar euro yen etc. Are all finished, and the real currency going forward is Bitcoin or something similar; after all money is only a man made phenomenon now the gold standard is no more.

Bitcoin is interesting, as its effectively backed by energy. Or rather it costs energy to make it, so the supply of it is limited by the amount (and cost) of available energy. Bitcoin is 'mined' by computers solving increasingly hard mathematical problems, once the problem is solved a bitcoin (or fraction of one) is awarded. And as the problems get harder, the computing power to crack them rises, as does the power consumption of those computers. This is why bitcoin miners are increasingly located in countries and regions with cheap electricity, often from hydro-electric schemes.

So in the absence of some sudden breakthough in power generation that collapses the price of electricity, the supply of Bitcoin is ultimately limited, as eventually it will cost more in electricity than the value of the bitcoin produced. Which in turn makes it potentially a better store of value than fiat currencies, which can be produced in infinite amounts at the pressing of the Central Bank button.

The biggest problem for Bitcoin as I see it is that it is such an obvious independent competitor to the fiat currencies of the major world financial blocs that they will cut it off at the knees if it even has the slightest possibility of collapsing their fiat currency systems. States have the guns and the power and will use them to get their way - if that means outlawing Bitcoin and using State power to enforce that ban, they will. They are not going to allow a few nerds with computers destroy their entire system of finance and governance without a nasty fight. The moment Bitcoin (or any electronic currency not controlled by the State) looks like starting to rival fiat money as a medium of exchange they will outlaw it (there are already mutterings from politicians about Bitcoin facilitating criminal activities), have a few show trials and bang some ringleaders up for a suitably long time pour encourager les autres, and frighten off the masses, which will kill it stone dead.

One should view the State as a form of the Mafia - they do not allow newcomers to take over their turf without a fight, and the State will not step aside in a a gentlemanly and democratic manner when faced with a totally legal but existential threat.
 

Pond digger

Never Forgotten
Honorary Member
Location
East Yorkshire
The English are, undeniably, very sensitive...

It's enough to get (some) going , just by mentioning that they are, in fact, 'English.' They should, perhaps, just accept this and move on with their life - it's not my fault that they are as a nation both dissatisfied and angry.

Anyway, I focused on DEFRA's stats because they are the most topical, and available. Farm structure is rather different in Scotland, for several reasons, and debt averages are harder to find. Wales ditto*. *Anyone who can find these stats is welcome to put them up for discussion.

The Prince's Trust says farm borrowing across the UK has more than doubled 2006-2015 (to £11 billion) and in 2017 it reached £18 billion. Those facts speak for themselves.

Much as I disagree with my former neighbour on many topics, this is not 'progress', folks. It is merely the illusion of it.

@Walterp , I very much doubt that the English are any more sensitive than the Welsh, the fact is, no one likes racism, especially the recipients. The same goes for dissatisfaction and anger; this isn’t a national trait, it’s personal to the individual.

Why not channel your efforts into being helpful? Youy were recently tagged into posts concerning legal matters ( a subject in which you are qualified, I believe) and you remain stum, yet any excuse for a dig at the English................ That says something about you, and has nothing to do with you being Welsh.
 

Y Fan Wen

Member
Location
N W Snowdonia
They already have, and are still.

That you appear unaware of this is truly disconcerting.

And, of course, may neatly prove my point.

(I accept the alternative possibility, that we are not in a 'frog-boiling' process at all - but the proposition that countries do not plump for economically-damaging outcomes is being severely tested at the moment. The evidence is against it, I think.)
I re read that last paragraph, and then laughed out loud!
 

Y Fan Wen

Member
Location
N W Snowdonia
Just about old enough to remember the kerfuffle in the mid 80's when one particular bank decided to call in overdrafts. It's still in my memory. Whenever I bring up the subject on here, or question the wisdom of 2000 cow herds, or £100k tractors, or £10k / acre + land, Or the fact we receive 1970's prices. I get pooh-poohed.
Or worse someone turns up to call it " progress ".
Or worse still " rose tinted glasses ".
Or worse than worse " jealousy ".:ROFLMAO:
A neighbour got caught in that and it took him ages to get back on an even keel.
 

Y Fan Wen

Member
Location
N W Snowdonia
Farming's debt is a tick on the elephant:

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/sep/18/uk-debt-crisis-credit-cards-car-loans

This is why rates won't rise, the State can't let them, there's too much debt out there. If rates rise significantly there will be carnage in the wider economy, people couldn't afford to service their mortgages and unsecured debts. The economy would tank, and sterling would fall through the floor.

Which ironically is good for farming........
That is exactly what my accountant said.
 

Y Fan Wen

Member
Location
N W Snowdonia
@Walterp , I very much doubt that the English are any more sensitive than the Welsh, the fact is, no one likes racism, especially the recipients. The same goes for dissatisfaction and anger; this isn’t a national trait, it’s personal to the individual.

Why not channel your efforts into being helpful? Youy were recently tagged into posts concerning legal matters ( a subject in which you are qualified, I believe) and you remain stum, yet any excuse for a dig at the English................ That says something about you, and has nothing to do with you being Welsh.
Why do you lot think 'english/welsh' are racist terms? What about Yorkshire and Lancashire?
 

Y Fan Wen

Member
Location
N W Snowdonia
Most new cars on UK roads are leased, so they only have to be able to afford the monthlys on the depreciation plus a small margin for the lease company.

The lease company sell the cars once returned at auction, which are bought by car dealers, who sell them to their customers on finance, its often not until the third or fourth 'owner' (I use that term loosely) that the car is owned outright and not by a finance company.

The above is true for a lot of big farm equipment, be it combines, tractors etc.
You should use the official title 'keeper' as the dvla does. I'm looking for a 5th, 6th, 7th keeper vehicle at the mo. Just missed an x trail for 800. Drat.
 

icanshootwell

Member
Location
Ross-on-wye
I didn’t watch it. What point do the welsh , Scots and Irish have ?
Apparently the Irish don,t want a border, the scots want a referendum to end the link with the UK but still want a link with the EU, but would still want to keep the pound, crazy jokers, and the welsh wants to ditch the English language and just speak welsh. :eek:
 

Goweresque

Member
Location
North Wilts
Most new cars on UK roads are leased, so they only have to be able to afford the monthlys on the depreciation plus a small margin for the lease company.

The lease company sell the cars once returned at auction, which are bought by car dealers, who sell them to their customers on finance, its often not until the third or fourth 'owner' (I use that term loosely) that the car is owned outright and not by a finance company.

The above is true for a lot of big farm equipment, be it combines, tractors etc.

A lot of lease cars are sold direct to the public nowadays, at these 'car supermarket' type places. When you buy at these sort of dealers, the dealer doesn't own the car, they just sell it for the lease company, on a fixed fee. They don't make much on selling the car, they make their money on selling you finance (and other add-ons). When I bought my car at one of those places the manager of the branch spent a good 15 minutes trying to convince me that I should buy it on finance rather than pay for it outright, because he knew that if I didn't take the finance they'd make very little out of the deal.
 

Hereward

Member
Location
Peterborough
A lot of lease cars are sold direct to the public nowadays, at these 'car supermarket' type places. When you buy at these sort of dealers, the dealer doesn't own the car, they just sell it for the lease company, on a fixed fee. They don't make much on selling the car, they make their money on selling you finance (and other add-ons). When I bought my car at one of those places the manager of the branch spent a good 15 minutes trying to convince me that I should buy it on finance rather than pay for it outright, because he knew that if I didn't take the finance they'd make very little out of the deal.
I think you're in the minority of been able to purchase outright.

I bought a two year old car from my local Ford dealer, the whole sales 'experience' is designed to sell Finance, warranty, fabric trim treatments, GAP insurance etc... think he was dissapointed when I bought outright, for a cash buyer the price was competitive as they are keen as like the car supermarket they will make their margin on the finance et al.
 

Ashtree

Member
Apparently the Irish don,t want a border, the scots want a referendum to end the link with the UK but still want a link with the EU, but would still want to keep the pound, crazy jokers, and the welsh wants to ditch the English language and just speak welsh. :eek:

And what do the English want? You didn’t say.
 
Farming's debt is a tick on the elephant:

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/sep/18/uk-debt-crisis-credit-cards-car-loans

This is why rates won't rise, the State can't let them, there's too much debt out there. If rates rise significantly there will be carnage in the wider economy, people couldn't afford to service their mortgages and unsecured debts. The economy would tank, and sterling would fall through the floor.

Which ironically is good for farming........

But credit card and car loan rates bear no resemblance to 0.75% + a reasonable margin anyway, the rates appear to be plucked out of thin air and trebled !
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

  • 0 %

    Votes: 77 43.0%
  • Up to 25%

    Votes: 62 34.6%
  • 25-50%

    Votes: 30 16.8%
  • 50-75%

    Votes: 3 1.7%
  • 75-100%

    Votes: 3 1.7%
  • 100% I’ve had enough of farming!

    Votes: 4 2.2%

Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

  • 1,286
  • 1
As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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