"Project fear" proven right....GOVERNMENT WASTES NO TIME IN SHUTTING DOWN UK FARMS!!!!

Chris F

Staff Member
Media
Location
Hammerwich
Lets just say I think DEFRA have quite a bit of work to do before they will be able to clarify anything for you. I believe their timetable for rolling out ELMS is technically known as "extremely ambitious", but probably more towards the "hopelessly optimistic" end of the scale.
If they have anything coherent to tell you which actually makes it to the final scheme I'll be amazed!

I think they have a massive amount of work to do, one of the main things we are going to say to them. There just seems to be a massive void of information right now. But I feel from other conversations that a lot more is going on in the background then we are aware of.
 

DrWazzock

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
Its just part of relentless globalisation.
It would happen even without Brexit as it is not permitted under WTO rules to subsidise ag production. Same in the EU or outside of it.
The present payments we receive arent for production they are for keeping the land in good condition.
The future payments we receive will also not be linked to production but dressed up as "helping the environment" or "public goods".
Yes i have heard it all my life. They are going to cut us adrift blah blah blah. They won't do that as for one they need to conduit to get printed money into the economy.
The reality is they might as well just pay every adult in the country £10k p.a. It would save a lot of paperwork, inquisitions and worn out measuring wheels.
 
As many predicted and were accused of "scaremongering" and "project fear" before the brexit vote, the government has announced farm subsidies in england are being phased out completely starting next year, they are being "replaced" with enviro payments but the nasty truth of the matter is these payments wont even be an option until 2024 by which point youll have gone 3 years of cuts with nothing to replace them and the new schemes may cost money to participate in so wont be profit, you may even find that most schemes are not suitable to your farm, where does this leave the majority of english farmers who as george eustice admitted "rely on direct support" for profitability???

The government has dressed this nasty betrayal up by saying such things as theyre going to "tackle the causes of poor profitability" but at the same time save the environment and animal welfare, are they not aware of the effect removing support had in NZ? farms scaled up massively, farmed more intensively with big dairies polluting rivers right left and centre??
Any proof to back up your last sentence?
 

DrWazzock

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
I'm not counting on receiving anything though. They didn't pay my BPS a couple of years ago which was a good lesson in how to get by without it. It was manageable. We will survive, one way or another, but it might not be farming as we know it but frankly I don't care as I am fairly sick of farming anyway. As far as I care the whole thing could disappear into a hole in the ground. Its a thankless treadmill of drudgery, well at least this sugar beet harvest has, and its not even over yet. Harvester stuck for umpteenth time.
 

B'o'B

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Rutland
I think they have a massive amount of work to do, one of the main things we are going to say to them. There just seems to be a massive void of information right now. But I feel from other conversations that a lot more is going on in the background then we are aware of.
Yes there is massive amounts of work going into ELMS at the moment, but I'm not sure the people doing the work actually know what DEFRA really want from them!
I look forward to reading your update to see what your impression of how they are getting on.(y)
 

Wolds Beef

Member
@Chris F I wish I was a fly on the wall at that meeting, I am sure you and Clive can ask some pointed questions to get a bit out of them. There are many farmers looking very carefully at there bank balance or lack of it. We are scared of doing something that will jeopardise future payments. We are scared stiff of one sided agreements too, as we all farm private land to the best of our ability!! Good luck and report back as soon as possible, and do not sign any Gagging orders!!!
WB
 

B'o'B

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Rutland
I'm not counting on receiving anything though. They didn't pay my BPS a couple of years ago which was a good lesson in how to get by without it. It was manageable. We will survive, one way or another, but it might not be farming as we know it but frankly I don't care as I am fairly sick of farming anyway. As far as I care the whole thing could disappear into a hole in the ground. Its a thankless treadmill of drudgery, well at least this sugar beet harvest has, and its not even over yet. Harvester stuck for umpteenth time.
Try and keep your chin up fella, this year has been an absolute pig for many. We all have rough days and it sounds you're having quite a few at the moment. I hope it picks up for you soon.
 

Wellytrack

Member
If your selling what your producing at a loss it will soon disappear.

Do you farm?

I do. I farm LFA, Profits are low and I claim a subsidy of four figures. I also do other things.

I also recognise farming marginal to poor land, or mountain is completely different to those on good land.

Subs although largely de-coupled from Agricultural business still does have a lot to commend its continued support in the years to come with environmental changes - and in promoting the retention of carbon.

Farms are asset rich and cash poor, bitching about subs just for the sake of it is boring and unnecessary, I realise loses happen due to unsustainable prices, and profit is difficult on good land, and all but impossible on poor land but to equate subs to farm profit in this post Brexit age with what the country as a whole faces for the period of transition to the average layman is unpalatable imo.
 
I do. I farm LFA, Profits are low and I claim a subsidy of four figures. I also do other things.

I also recognise farming marginal to poor land, or mountain is completely different to those on good land.

Subs although largely de-coupled from Agricultural business still does have a lot to commend its continued support in the years to come with environmental changes - and in promoting the retention of carbon.

Farms are asset rich and cash poor, bitching about subs just for the sake of it is boring and unnecessary, I realise loses happen due to unsustainable prices, and profit is difficult on good land, and all but impossible on poor land but to equate subs to farm profit in this post Brexit age with what the country as a whole faces for the period of transition to the average layman is unpalatable imo.
The subs go straight to the net profit, anything you do to try and replace them wont, a land agent told me hes expecting a lot to be up for sale in the coming years its a war out there!
 

Cowabunga

Member
Location
Ceredigion,Wales
@Chris F I wish I was a fly on the wall at that meeting, I am sure you and Clive can ask some pointed questions to get a bit out of them. There are many farmers looking very carefully at there bank balance or lack of it. We are scared of doing something that will jeopardise future payments. We are scared stiff of one sided agreements too, as we all farm private land to the best of our ability!! Good luck and report back as soon as possible, and do not sign any Gagging orders!!!
WB
Please do not consider it only from an arable point of view. Remember that the livestock sector makes up a massive percentage of arable sales and therefore arable income.
 

steveR

Member
Mixed Farmer
However, I have always felt it odd that anyone believed that the UK government would be more supportive of agriculture than the EU have been. We are but a handful of peasants, who’s votes make very little difference to the career politicians we have today.

Sums our plight most succinctly. Said the same 25 years ago that our best and only "friends" were fellow farmers across the Channel, who actually had some power to lobby the Pols. It's not just about support payments, but an understanding and support for local agriculture

The Welsh parliament appears to have little understanding of agricultrure, and Westminster is going the same way.
 

steveR

Member
Mixed Farmer
The government should give an example of an ordinary farm 300/400acre, who got say 35 grand from subs, this farm would be mostly grass and rough grazing, sheep and some cows and explain how get the same money back threw environmental schemes. Clean air, and how many hoops you have to jump threw to get it, l. Bet they haven't a clue.

Do you really think Tess would even understand the Question....???
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

  • 0 %

    Votes: 79 42.5%
  • Up to 25%

    Votes: 65 34.9%
  • 25-50%

    Votes: 30 16.1%
  • 50-75%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 75-100%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 100% I’ve had enough of farming!

    Votes: 6 3.2%

Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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