Prolapse causes

[Frank-the-Wool]

Very interesting point from GO about feeding and prolapse.
On our system which is mainly all grass and some forage crops pre lambing with additional Haylage if required, the incidence of prolapse varies massively from year to year and has little or nothing to do with breed.
However I have noticed and this is a year in point that when it is very dry and the feed is high in dry matter the incidence of prolapse is much lower and it has been mild so the feed is growing.
We also now provide free access minerals with Mg from 2 -3 weeks before lambing.

We cull ruthlessly and tail length is an irrelevance. 3% is a high level of prolapse for us and we certainly don't have many hills!

 

[Global ovine]

Very interesting point from GO about feeding and prolapse.
On our system which is mainly all grass and some forage crops pre lambing with additional Haylage if required, the incidence of prolapse varies massively from year to year and has little or nothing to do with breed.
However I have noticed and this is a year in point that when it is very dry and the feed is high in dry matter the incidence of prolapse is much lower and it has been mild so the feed is growing.
We also now provide free access minerals with Mg from 2 -3 weeks before lambing.

We cull ruthlessly and tail length is an irrelevance. 3% is a high level of prolapse for us and we certainly don't have many hills!

Tail length had no effect on incidence of prolapse in NZ (with UK breeds and UK pasture species), but did on prolapsed anus incidence. The latter being logical with two muscle attachments located on the vertebrae removed if tailed flush to the body, that is illegal in the EU.

 

[Six Dogs]

On exactly the the same theory,our vet recommended putting mag in the water pre lambing.We would only run at 1% prolapse so haven't tried this but I know some flocks this has made a dramatic improvement in

 

[neilo]

On exactly the the same theory,our vet recommended putting mag in the water pre lambing.We would only run at 1% prolapse so haven't tried this but I know some flocks this has made a dramatic improvement in

Our vet suggested that at a meeting too. Sheep that aren't on dry feed hardly drink water anyway though, if at all, so might be an issue with forage fed flocks.

I thought we had a lot of prolapses last year, when the flock came through the winter fitter than normal, but that was only 1%. We usually run a lot lower than that.
However, the indoor lambing flock of pedigree Charollais, which are fed concentrates and silage when they're housed over lambing, would run at 2% (all culled at weaning). I always thought that was too many. I feel for some of you guys regularly getting bigger numbers, it must be a menace.

 

[JD-Kid]

there are alot of ideas on tail length but that has not shown much if any thing
there is some things with higher mg but i would have to say we have high mg here in water and it dose not seem to have an efect with the high K we have low Ca on the other hand and animals able to to use it seems to be some kind of a tie
i'm not sure but seem to see some links with vit d and the P/Ca balance started to add boron to fert it seems to be haveing some efects with Ca and up take of vit D

 

[Downton_shep]

Our vet suggested that at a meeting too. Sheep that aren't on dry feed hardly drink water anyway though, if at all, so might be an issue with forage fed flocks.

I thought we had a lot of prolapses last year, when the flock came through the winter fitter than normal, but that was only 1%. We usually run a lot lower than that.
However, the indoor lambing flock of pedigree Charollais, which are fed concentrates and silage when they're housed over lambing, would run at 2% (all culled at weaning). I always thought that was too many. I feel for some of you guys regularly getting bigger numbers, it must be a menace.

The trouble with adding anything to water is if it effects taste then it reduces intake. Hard enough getting ewes to take mag in a bucket laced with molasses!

 

[jemski]

@Global ovine we are short of mag here, but the only blocks I can get my ewes to touch are salt based 10%mag blocks. Are they counterproductive?

 

[Global ovine]

@Global ovine we are short of mag here, but the only blocks I can get my ewes to touch are salt based 10%mag blocks. Are they counterproductive?

Maybe.
Can you not dust pastures or silage or what ever you are offering your ewes?

 

[Man_in_black]

My most recent soil analysis show very high level of Mg so high it could actually interfere with the availability of K.

 

[Global ovine]

My most recent soil analysis show very high level of Mg so high it could actually interfere with the availability of K.

K is required for plants to build cell walls. It is always more available in soils when temps are low as plants cannot take up Mg then. Therefore pastures grown over late winter/early spring are usually under supplied, irrespective of soil Mg supplies.
If being fed during the third trimester with silage made early during dull weather, Mg levels may also be low. This is common in the deep south of NZ where only farmers of Scottish descent enjoy the weather.

Moral of story; late preg feeding must be with pasture/silage made when Mg levels are high. What you made last spring can affect what happens this spring in your animals.

All soil types are different due to chemical make up and interactions coupled with the plants ability to take up those nutrients at various times of the year.

It is quite common for NZ intensive farms in regions of high K soils to feed high Mg nuts to twin bearing ewes in the last few weeks leading up to lambing.

 

[icanshootwell]

Morning

Other than being over condition (fecking mild winter!) is there anything else that causes them? Not been an issue for years but have had a couple now & not due another week.

Once heard very short tail can influence; or is that old wives? Had lleyn x chaollais shearling (first lambing) pop one last night. Bought her as a group of ewe lambs and all have extremely short tails....



All out so not restricted on moving about.
And any harness better than another? Got spoon in her since last night but wanting to use harnesses really.

Stopped feeding ewe nuts and beat pulp nuts, can swell inside the ewe, that puts pressure on her to want to heave. I use whole beat and whole barley, oats in a 3 in 1 feeder, and wettish silage not to dry, only had one prolapse this year.

 

[neilo]

Stopped feeding ewe nuts and beat pulp nuts, can swell inside the ewe, that puts pressure on her to want to heave. I use whole beat and whole barley, oats in a 3 in 1 feeder, and wettish silage not to dry, only had one prolapse this year.

Where does the protein in your sheep's diet come from? All those ingredients are very low in protein. Presumably they are on a high protein forage to balance?

 

[Global ovine]

Stopped feeding ewe nuts and beat pulp nuts, can swell inside the ewe, that puts pressure on her to want to heave. I use whole beat and whole barley, oats in a 3 in 1 feeder, and wettish silage not to dry, only had one prolapse this year.

Beet crops have a very high K demand and usually farmers ensure K levels are high to ensure a good crop.
I cannot accept that any swelling due to beet pulp would cause a greater volume problem than a belly full of pasture, whether fresh or fermented as silage. I can see that a rumen full of beet would increase the pH causing an increase in blood pH. That situation is bad for metabolism problems leading to Milk fever in times of feed shortage or Prolapse in times of adequate feed allocation. It is essential to have a rumen pH slightly on the acid side of neutral to maintain a correct cation : anion balance essential for pregnant sheep to mobilise Ca.
The low pH of silage is of benefit to the pregnant ewe. Grains also assist in acidifying the rumen. But please don't think I'm advocating pushing grain to the point of acidosis!

 

[icanshootwell]

Beet crops have a very high K demand and usually farmers ensure K levels are high to ensure a good crop.
I cannot accept that any swelling due to beet pulp would cause a greater volume problem than a belly full of pasture, whether fresh or fermented as silage. I can see that a rumen full of beet would increase the pH causing an increase in blood pH. That situation is bad for metabolism problems leading to Milk fever in times of feed shortage or Prolapse in times of adequate feed allocation. It is essential to have a rumen pH slightly on the acid side of neutral to maintain a correct cation : anion balance essential for pregnant sheep to mobilise Ca.
The low pH of silage is of benefit to the pregnant ewe. Grains also assist in acidifying the rumen. But please don't think I'm advocating pushing grain to the point of acidosis!

Well, you should put some beat pulp nuts in a bucket and add some water. the beat pulp will swell to more than 3 to 4 times in area. this would not happen with silage. Perhaps you know better, but i know a lot of experts who dont know the cause of a lot of prolapse in the UK.
I have tried different rations over the years and the one i am on now, seems to work the best.

 

[Man_in_black]

Purchased nettex truss today.

Whilst there priced up mag buckets. One had higher % of mag but lower calcium & othee vice versa. Which be more beneficial? @Global ovine

 

[willy]

All I can say is when I fed ewes I had lots of prolapses now they have just grass I don't have any......I put some licks out sparingly but that's it

 

[shearerlad]

I used to have between 4-5% prolapse every year but got a snacker 3 years ago and since then I've had 0, 0 and 0.5% respectively.
Same feed, amount of feed, same fields grazed and silage. I can't comment on TE levels of soil and forage. My only guess is that they are fed more accurately and feed is spread out further so less pushing.

 

[Global ovine]

Purchased nettex truss today.

Whilst there priced up mag buckets. One had higher % of mag but lower calcium & othee vice versa. Which be more beneficial? @Global ovine

Whatever feed ration or additive has as much Mg as you can get into the ewes at that time of the year.

Well, you should put some beat pulp nuts in a bucket and add some water. the beat pulp will swell to more than 3 to 4 times in area. this would not happen with silage. Perhaps you know better, but i know a lot of experts who dont know the cause of a lot of prolapse in the UK.
I have tried different rations over the years and the one i am on now, seems to work the best.

I bet if you fed the same beet nuts at any other time of the year, any amount of swelling would not cause a prolapse because of better muscle control. So why the problem in late pregnancy is the logical question. It all boils down to lack of muscle control when the uterine load is at its greatest. Athletes often snack on a banana for energy, but are advised not to eat more than 3 in the 4 hours prior to their next event because of the high K content's effect on their muscles.
Your present feed regime which looks like it would acidify the rumen, means a more suitable blood pH for Ca to be mobilised and counter the K levels in a diet containing beet.

 

[Archie]

Very interesting thread.
Been getting far more prolapses this year. Had half a dozen so far all from the 70 or so triplet bearing ewes. None at all in twins.

Obviously expect triplets to be most prone to it but this is the first year we haven't had them on the swedes/kale in the month before lambing. Twins ewes are on there as usual but triplets on grass and getting first cut silage so wondering if we are getting the high potash, low magnesium issues @Global ovine is talking of. They are getting fed ewe rolls through the snacker as well which will contain magnesium but not sure how much.

Didn't put them on swedes this year as much talk on here in other years about bellyfulls of swedes leading to prolapse!