- Location
- North Somerset.
Public Accounts Committee enquiry into ELMS
- Thread starter delilah
- Start date
Unexpected bonus.
Natural cleance so bound to be "good"....
that's why we are here
- Location
- North Somerset.
What, forestry clearance in South Somerset with an elephant herd? @farmerclare never mentioned that at Sedgemoor!
when the elephants pushed the trees down we [people] fell out and had to walk about, its all their fault.
there was a lot bigger Ele's about back then
- Location
- East yorks
We have a report from the inspector saying nothing wrong and still have a 2% fine for undeclared parcels which they know you cannot appeal as it holds up the next years payment so you don’t bother holding up multiple thousand for the sake of a couple of hundred quid.
Yes I agree that's very important and we are designing our new schemes to be more flexible in response to this sort of issue.
As well as making the scheme actions much less prescriptive, we're also factoring risk and uncertainty in to the way we assess and respond to compliance issues - if we see anything amiss, our first port of call will be to look to support the farmer address any issues rather than having the punitive regime we've had in the past.
We've already started making changes in this direction in cross compliance, as outlined here: https://defrafarming.blog.gov.uk/20...inspections-and-make-penalties-proportionate/ and CS as outlined here: https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...e-basic-payment-scheme-from-2021-html-version
We will be building on this direction of travel in SFI and will publish more specific info about this before we open the scheme up to applications.
We're not seeking to micro-manage, and we are introducing a more flexible and proportionate set of control arrangements, building on the improvements we've already made to cross-compliance https://defrafarming.blog.gov.uk/20...inspections-and-make-penalties-proportionate/ and countryside stewardship inspections as set out here: https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...e-basic-payment-scheme-from-2021-html-version
I agree permanent pasture is important and we will be paying for that, but it's not the only action we'll be paying for and we want to present a range of options so that there are actions relevant to all farmers, whatever assets they have.
No I hadn't seen that, thanks for sharing, I will take a look@Janet Hughes Defra
Have you (or any of your staff) read this thread?
Footpath problem
During Covid we’ve had many more people using the footpaths. It doesn’t bother me but as usual there’s always one...... A person from the village continually walks where she pleases around the farm. I’ve explained politely where the footpaths go and the importance of sticking to them and she...thefarmingforum.co.uk
It highlights why farmers won't encourage additional public access under current laws.
As its the most important as far as what you are trying to do is concerned it should be sorted first and paid for well.
Couple hundred quid per acre should hit the spot,
- Location
- Kent
The only issue is you may not but more often than not the quangos or agencies that you appoint do, it is rather like when we were still farm assured when we sold the majority of our lambs finished, for decades we had no issues then when the inspector retired and it didn't matter what we did there would always be something half the time it would be a new rule change that we had yet to be informed about would still pass us but would still write it up. While the RPA inspectors that we have had before who I believe work for contractors have been honest and informative Trading Standards have been a mixed bag.
Though speaking to one of our old landlords NE are beyond picky where he had wooded area marked that they got moody over though given he was nearly ninety at the time it was the NE guy who had helped me designs his ELMS package and had mis-recorded it. He measured all the fields etc but due to over hanging trees around most of his field boundaries twice when they did remote satellite imagery he was threated with prosecution for over declaring his hectares which for a month of phone calls it took before they would send someone out who after a couple of days measuring would say his figures were right.
Even we have had that where we have owned both affected fields and have had a similar threatening letter because we repaired a leaning fence where the 3 year old posts were rotted out physically the boundary had not moved by remote satellite it looked as though one had shrunk and the other gained .01 of a hectare which led to being threatened with 30% being held back for three years and a 10 month delay in payment.
- Location
- Derbyshire
The danger of a range of options is that it will become over complicated. You will fall into the trap of trying to please everyone and end up pleasing nobody
Pay a simple set figure on the first 100ha of PP open to everyone. That scheme could be sorted out tomorrow, and you will have the take-up.
You will meet your targets immediately.
Then, open up the more complex options next. This will take in your test and trials, pilot results and co-design consults
- Location
- Moreton-in-Marsh, Glos
I’ve just got back from a Hutchinsons meeting re the future of farming.
Obviously it was rather slanted in their direction, particularly with regard their Omnia system that has its good points, but mostly tells us what we already know from the knowledge we have of the farms we own and manage.
ELMs got mentioned, but more in passing, rather than actually trying to see it’s relevance. Their view is that that SFI will only be of any use to grassland farmers and a “waste of time regarding anything arable”!
Then, having said that they have no specific views with regard to No-till -v- Plough/Min-till, gave a very convincing argument as to why we should be heading towards the absolute minimum of any cultivations for all sorts of reasons that are good for the Soil, the Environment and particularly Carbon Storage!
They claim that the greatest asset we have is firstly ourselves and secondly the soil. Which I hadn’t considered, because I’d forgotten that we farmers and Land managers are the greatest asset that DEFRA should value above all else!
One benefit I can see with their Omnia system is that it can easily be used to calculate both our soil Carbon levels and the crops Carbon levels, which might come in handy, not only for ELMs but for carbon trading too.
Sadly, they didn’t tell us how much it will cost though.
One of the most interesting speakers was a guy called James Bolesworth from crm AGRI, who talked about how his company works out and advises grain producers how much (%) and when to sell their grain and how they work it out.
I mentioned the scenario of the high Nitrate fertiliser costs reducing the amount of N used resulting in a global reduction in stocks of all farm products that use fertilisers. He pointed out that it is actually Grain Maize that uses the most Nitrates, which will influence both it and grain prices as stock levels reduce. But that he doesn’t yet feel this has influenced the prices so far and is not sure by how much it will do yet. Nonetheless, his view is that grain prices have room to manoeuvre upwards yet due to current StU (stock to use) levels, irrespective of how the Nitrate fertilisers usage reduction, therefore crop yield reduction ‘could’ be!
Ironically, if this is the case, then maybe Hutchinson’s view of SFI being “a waste of time for anything arable” might actually be right. But maybe not necessarily for the reasons they were originally thinking!!
Obviously it was rather slanted in their direction, particularly with regard their Omnia system that has its good points, but mostly tells us what we already know from the knowledge we have of the farms we own and manage.
ELMs got mentioned, but more in passing, rather than actually trying to see it’s relevance. Their view is that that SFI will only be of any use to grassland farmers and a “waste of time regarding anything arable”!
Then, having said that they have no specific views with regard to No-till -v- Plough/Min-till, gave a very convincing argument as to why we should be heading towards the absolute minimum of any cultivations for all sorts of reasons that are good for the Soil, the Environment and particularly Carbon Storage!
They claim that the greatest asset we have is firstly ourselves and secondly the soil. Which I hadn’t considered, because I’d forgotten that we farmers and Land managers are the greatest asset that DEFRA should value above all else!
One benefit I can see with their Omnia system is that it can easily be used to calculate both our soil Carbon levels and the crops Carbon levels, which might come in handy, not only for ELMs but for carbon trading too.
Sadly, they didn’t tell us how much it will cost though.
One of the most interesting speakers was a guy called James Bolesworth from crm AGRI, who talked about how his company works out and advises grain producers how much (%) and when to sell their grain and how they work it out.
I mentioned the scenario of the high Nitrate fertiliser costs reducing the amount of N used resulting in a global reduction in stocks of all farm products that use fertilisers. He pointed out that it is actually Grain Maize that uses the most Nitrates, which will influence both it and grain prices as stock levels reduce. But that he doesn’t yet feel this has influenced the prices so far and is not sure by how much it will do yet. Nonetheless, his view is that grain prices have room to manoeuvre upwards yet due to current StU (stock to use) levels, irrespective of how the Nitrate fertilisers usage reduction, therefore crop yield reduction ‘could’ be!
Ironically, if this is the case, then maybe Hutchinson’s view of SFI being “a waste of time for anything arable” might actually be right. But maybe not necessarily for the reasons they were originally thinking!!
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We've in the past had the very same with dividing granite walls on Dartmoor that miraculously take a small step overnight every few years making one three acre field smaller & the other bigger by 0.001 hectares.
I have an awful feeling Elms inspectors will turn out like Red Tractor's where if they don't recall a few faults they will not be seen to be doing their job properly.
- Location
- Kent
After reading a threat in the tenant section I'm rather glade that the Natural England representatives at the ELS meeting put us right off Stewardship Schemes as if they couldn't or rather wouldn't answer questions and were going to be responsible for administrating them they didn't fill us with confidence.
Saw tthe same a couple of years ago at a similiar meeting... pre-Covid. Very uninspiring bunch.