Pure Angus cows, what bull?

Hi folks,

We have ran a herd of 50 pure angus cows for about 15years, Its now up to me where the herd goes, now i am not going to rip the angus cows to bits they are doing a job, we are on hard hill ground in the highlands of scotland the cows outwinter and we sell calves store around 6 months old, bullocks avg £680 last year.
The problem is i feel we really need to inject some hybrid vigor, the cows are lacking milk big time!!! and not fleshing up in the summer the odd old cross cow we have is always fatter. Also the heifer calves dont sell well!

So the Big question... What bull do you folk think??

1) Simmy All ways wanted 1, what does the first cross look like? dun, rat tails?
2) Whitebred, would love to have some nice blue roan heifers but maybe the drop in bullock value not worth it?
3) Stabilizers, Like the idea but not seen any
4) Beef shorthorn could get a loan of a bull what colour would the calves be?
5) Angus, stick with what we know never calve them, very easy care ours are very docile, get back in calf well, Get the creep feeding into the calves!!

Thank you for any help, bit of pressure on me to get this right!!
 

Bojangles

Member
Location
Scotland
I think I would look at splitting the herd in to your best breeding and milkiest cows - keep with the Angus but be very picky of the bull and use one with the traits you are looking for to breed replacements

Then if you want a high value store especially in the north then put all the rest to a "easy calving Charolais"

The main reason I say this is that with good bull selection for replacements you are keeping what has worked whilst still improving the genetics. The Charolais on the Angus works well and will give you a significant lift in value IMO

You could then in future use the Angus on hfrs and second calvers before the big boy gets a go on them.

I know a man with 300 Angus who switched to this system and would never go back he out winters them all on hill ground
 

Samcowman

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Cornwall
I like simmy x angus have had a few and they look and do really well. There happens to be a bit in 'The Angus' magazine which we have just got through about a farm using angus x sim. The picture of their calf shown is much the same as ours dark brown or black with white bits.
If anyone is interested that's me on page 14!!!!!
 
That makes very good sense Bojangles, we have been trying for years to breed more milk in to the cows we spend upto 6k on bulls, last bull top 1% for milk so is the current stock bull he has also got a very high self replacing index, the best cows all go back to the golden oldies in the herd and you guessed it they are not pure!! If i lived on farm i would def try a big white boy but not worth the risk at the mo!
 

Thick Farmer

Member
Location
West Wales
That makes very good sense Bojangles, we have been trying for years to breed more milk in to the cows we spend upto 6k on bulls, last bull top 1% for milk so is the current stock bull he has also got a very high self replacing index, the best cows all go back to the golden oldies in the herd and you guessed it they are not pure!! If i lived on farm i would def try a big white boy but not worth the risk at the mo!

If milk is a problem then don't bother with Charolais - that's their main problem.

You're getting £680 for a 6 month old calf, plus you get that calf subsidy thing in Scotland. That's about as good as it gets.
 
If milk is a problem then don't bother with Charolais - that's their main problem.

You're getting £680 for a 6 month old calf, plus you get that calf subsidy thing in Scotland. That's about as good as it gets.

Yes they are doing ok but feel with a bit of vigor they could be even better, would like to get away from creep we find the cows raise the calve well till about 3 to 4 months then you need to get the creep out or they just go hairy and crap looking, we pay over £300 pound a tonne for creep feed!
 

Thick Farmer

Member
Location
West Wales
Yes they are doing ok but feel with a bit of vigor they could be even better, would like to get away from creep we find the cows raise the calve well till about 3 to 4 months then you need to get the creep out or they just go hairy and crap looking, we pay over £300 pound a tonne for creep feed!

I use whole oats in the creep feeder (£100/tonne) adlib. It sounds to me lie the cows are drying off because the grass quality is poor and this is also contributing to poor growth in the calves due to lack of protein intake.
 

Derrick Hughes

Member
Location
Ceredigion
Hi folks,

We have ran a herd of 50 pure angus cows for about 15years, Its now up to me where the herd goes, now i am not going to rip the angus cows to bits they are doing a job, we are on hard hill ground in the highlands of scotland the cows outwinter and we sell calves store around 6 months old, bullocks avg £680 last year.
The problem is i feel we really need to inject some hybrid vigor, the cows are lacking milk big time!!! and not fleshing up in the summer the odd old cross cow we have is always fatter. Also the heifer calves dont sell well!

So the Big question... What bull do you folk think??

1) Simmy All ways wanted 1, what does the first cross look like? dun, rat tails?
2) Whitebred, would love to have some nice blue roan heifers but maybe the drop in bullock value not worth it?
3) Stabilizers, Like the idea but not seen any
4) Beef shorthorn could get a loan of a bull what colour would the calves be?
5) Angus, stick with what we know never calve them, very easy care ours are very docile, get back in calf well, Get the creep feeding into the calves!!

Thank you for any help, bit of pressure on me to get this right!!
Are your cows quiet or wild?
 

Derrick Hughes

Member
Location
Ceredigion
Hi folks,

We have ran a herd of 50 pure angus cows for about 15years, Its now up to me where the herd goes, now i am not going to rip the angus cows to bits they are doing a job, we are on hard hill ground in the highlands of scotland the cows outwinter and we sell calves store around 6 months old, bullocks avg £680 last year.
The problem is i feel we really need to inject some hybrid vigor, the cows are lacking milk big time!!! and not fleshing up in the summer the odd old cross cow we have is always fatter. Also the heifer calves dont sell well!

So the Big question... What bull do you folk think??

1) Simmy All ways wanted 1, what does the first cross look like? dun, rat tails?
2) Whitebred, would love to have some nice blue roan heifers but maybe the drop in bullock value not worth it?
3) Stabilizers, Like the idea but not seen any
4) Beef shorthorn could get a loan of a bull what colour would the calves be?
5) Angus, stick with what we know never calve them, very easy care ours are very docile, get back in calf well, Get the creep feeding into the calves!!

Thank you for any help, bit of pressure on me to get this right!!
 
It sounds like milk is your main priority , so I suppose you really want to focus on what's going to leave you a really good cow for the future. Concentrate on breeding a cow , and use a breed that's going to leave a good bullock as a side sell. Obviously I'd say a Simmental - that's a given - but the Shorthorn breed is much improved these days , and I've just written a post on another thread of my fond memories of the Whitebred Shorthorn. I think @choochter mentioned that the Whitebred Shorthorn is also covered by the Shorthorn Premium Scheme , so both these breeds would have that going for them if the store/suckled calf buyer is prepared to pay a premium through the ring for them.

I'd concentrate on these three. On current market conditions they're the most saleable.
 

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