Ram lambs vs shearling tups

What do you buy first choice?

  • Shearlings

    Votes: 32 56.1%
  • Ram lambs

    Votes: 18 31.6%
  • No preferance as long as its big enough

    Votes: 7 12.3%

  • Total voters
    57

liammogs

Member
Just a bit of a market research really, got a lot of good ram lambs this year.....to many really only run 10 a year on as shearlings.......so thinking of selling a dozen or so as lambs come ram sales later on!

But how many people will only use shearlings as to a ram lamb, would some rather a ram lamb can buy more for less money spreading risk etc or is it a case of aslong as hes big enough to serve hes good enough for the job!

P.s the tups id have are pure beltex
 

GTB

Never Forgotten
Honorary Member
The genetics in a ram lamb are usually better because they've got to a saleable condition a year sooner than a shearling which wasn't up to the mark as a lamb? Having said that a shearling will cover a lot more ewes than a lamb, or should be able to if he hasn't been stuffed full of cake and cabbages!
 

MJT

Member
Sell all my beltex as ram lambs simply because they're forage fed and so keeping them over winter as shesrlings they don't grow as well as they would compared to if they had concentrates . Also with ram lambs you can get a better idea of what their lambs will look like, I've had shearling rams in past that were horrible looking narrow ranges lambs but fill out as shearling size, that's not what you want if producing fat lambs .
 

GTB

Never Forgotten
Honorary Member
Sell all my beltex as ram lambs simply because they're forage fed and so keeping them over winter as shesrlings they don't grow as well as they would compared to if they had concentrates . Also with ram lambs you can get a better idea of what their lambs will look like, I've had shearling rams in past that were horrible looking narrow ranges lambs but fill out as shearling size, that's not what you want if producing fat lambs .
Agree but with maternal breeds it's the other way around perhaps?
 

neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
Agree with above. Good ram lambs don't always turn out to be good shearlings...

Is growing into a 'good' shearling important, if you are looking at producing finished lambs at 40-45kg? They want to be finished lambs themselves at that weight. Unfortunately most bid up purely on the basis of size as a shearling, which is just about irrelevant. IME, lots of those biggest, strongest shearlings were like racehorses at slaughter weight. I remember a guy that set Builth sales alight a few years ago in our breed, with a cracking pen of shearlings. At the same sale a year previously, he'd been moaning about the same sheep (born from bought in semen) being awful ram lambs, lacking any shape even though he was feeding them hard.

Most ram lambs, especially at ram sales/competitions, will have to have been fed well to compete with the others on size, and will miss it greatly if not brought down gently (when they will be a different sheep to the one you bought;)). Of course, some of the huge shearlings that come out of sales will have been pumped just as hard, but for a lot longer. 200kg as a shearling ram in mid-summer doesn't come from converting forage!

I sell shearlings. Most people prefer them as they will serve more ewes, and take less looking after when they've done their job. I'm certainly not chasing after the biggest rams, and anything I carry through has to have been a decent sheep as a ram lamb, or it's not going to produce decent lambs, resulting in a customer not returning.

If I am buying, which is usually only either maternal rams or stock rams for the Charollais, I will more often buy ram lambs but will be very careful how they are managed, depending on what IO can glean of their previous management. I would like to buy forage reared ram lambs, but that would limit my choice of genetics drastically, especially if I'm only looking at buying from the top 1%.

I would say buyers should do a bit of homework on the breeder as well, even if they are buying at auction. If they are selling ram lambs and shearlings, very often the shearlings will be those that weren't good enough to sell as lambs, then fed well for 12 months. Not always of course, some will be running early and later lambing flocks to satisfy both markets.
 

MJT

Member
If we are talking Beltex, is lack of size not an issue with tup lambs?

Obviously a beltex ram lamb won't serve a 100kg scotch halfbred ewe in his first year but they cope well with most ewes. Aslong as they are the poor mobility bent legs types then they are a waste of time.
 

andybk

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Mendips Somerset
All you commercial boys have lambs , what weight do you get them to naturally by autumn ? now how do you think that massive ram lamb in the sales is going to do once the specialist feed and management stops? , A ram has a certain potential and the one in the sales is probably as big as he ever going to be and a lot can be hidden under a good coat ,
 

GTB

Never Forgotten
Honorary Member
There's an old Welsh saying... "Pryn oen, pryn gyllell" (buy a lamb, buy a knife). I take it to mean if you want something to serve ewes a lamb isn't up to the job. I'm not sure that that's the case any more but I can see why they would have said it in the past.
 

Joe

Member
Location
Carlow Ireland
All you commercial boys have lambs , what weight do you get them to naturally by autumn ? now how do you think that massive ram lamb in the sales is going to do once the specialist feed and management stops? , A ram has a certain potential and the one in the sales is probably as big as he ever going to be and a lot can be hidden under a good coat ,

Add to this pedigree lambs do not do weight gain same level as crossbred lamb if on same diet due to hybrid vigour, yet people expect them to be the size of a hogget no matter what diet.

I sell both lambs and April born grass fed lambs as hoggets. I find farmers still prefer lambs as they buy with their eyes and still have opinion that hoggets are lesser stock, even though my April flock the ewes are the best January lambs and the January ewes come from the April flock. I know here when picking rams to keep long term tend to keep from the hogget batch rather than the lambs, less work with them tbh and grass feed hoggets thrive on rather than need lot of minding I find.

Similar to Neilo though when buying a stock ram tends to be a lamb, but that's just because more choice rather than any specific reason.
 

Nithsdale

Member
Livestock Farmer
I tend to keep away from lambs because in the past if I have taken a chance on one, the change in 'lifestyle' has resulted in just a plain awful beast. The Suffolk lamb I bought last autumn is fairing well, though.

Most are over fed and over pushed for sales, because nobody wants tiny tup lambs...

My view, depending very much on the breeder and their personal ethos - the shearlings may be the poorer lambs which are kept back, but they've been treated better and left to develope on their own, which means when you buy them they won't (shouldn't) be dead in a years time and will do off grass much better without severe condition loss when working.
 

GTB

Never Forgotten
Honorary Member
Is growing into a 'good' shearling important, if you are looking at producing finished lambs at 40-45kg?
No of course not but no one likes to see a good lamb turn out very disappointing either. It does matter with maternal breeeds though. Nothing worse than keeping nice ewe lambs/ram lambs and they turn out to be shite as adults?
 

andybk

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Mendips Somerset
The genetics in a ram lamb are usually better because they've got to a saleable condition a year sooner than a shearling which wasn't up to the mark as a lamb? Having said that a shearling will cover a lot more ewes than a lamb, or should be able to if he hasn't been stuffed full of cake and cabbages!

only if the person your buying off sells lambs , i dont sell ram lambs normally and as shearlings april born ones appear out of nowhere every year , held back by poorer grass at weaning but they develop a good rumen , get good grass the following spring and they race away
Im sure you will find those superior genetics is feed on early born stuff (both better quality grass and creep) in april may which they can take advantage of as the rumen kicks in . Later ones will always struggle as prot / energy is going in grass when they start eating .
.Thats why its important to know what your breeders policy is , cant be done at a sale
 

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