Rapi injector and sheep

Robin2020

Member
Livestock Farmer
Wondering how people manage subcutaneous injections using rapid injectors on sheep?
Most injections seem to be required under the skin. Even with my newly built race it is a real challenge to hold a ewes head (as they know what is about to happen), lift the skin on the neck, and inject with the gun. 3 hands are needed...surely!!
Many YouTube vids show people walking along races and just firing the gun in the neck. But this is 5-10mm deep and in the muscle.
From some research I can see underskin or in the muscle simply changes the absorption rate. This is obviously important to control with strong vaccines like footvax etc.
I just don't get how large scale farmers are doing this..quickly. The best way I can find is sitting them down and jabbing in the arm pit. Now with a flock of 40 this is silly and far from ideal for hepvac before lambing. Yes a 2nd person would do it but I don't always have that option.
Any thoughts???
 

Bury the Trash

Member
Mixed Farmer
Good observation.
imo if you cant get someone to help how bout building a simple clamp or squeezer,
because its important to not have them jumping up or about for a good job (or jab :sneaky:) reliably to be made to all......
..... jabbing cockily away down through a race is as you note just poor stockman ship.
you don't want a jab yourself either ;)
 

JSmith

Member
Livestock Farmer
The one I’d love somebody to show me how easy it can be done is cydectin below the ear!! I absolutely hate doing that, unless I’m doing it totally wrong, I don’t see how you deal with the ewe flinching when needle goes in unless you e got its head clamped in a vice!! Glad we don’t do it very often but I can’t get my head round how to do it efficiently when doing hundreds, such a ball ache !🤬
 

Jerry

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Devon
The one I’d love somebody to show me how easy it can be done is cydectin below the ear!! I absolutely hate doing that, unless I’m doing it totally wrong, I don’t see how you deal with the ewe flinching when needle goes in unless you e got its head clamped in a vice!! Glad we don’t do it very often but I can’t get my head round how to do it efficiently when doing hundreds, such a ball ache !🤬

270 ewes to do tomorrow like that, as long as it’s dry enough! (Don’t ask why…🙄)

Did 100 the other week and not too bad to be honest. Jammed them tight into a pen 15 at a time and walked through them, with some efforts, to jab them.

Just a shame the sterimatic injectors are only 2mm.
 

JSmith

Member
Livestock Farmer
270 ewes to do tomorrow like that, as long as it’s dry enough! (Don’t ask why…🙄)

Did 100 the other week and not too bad to be honest. Jammed them tight into a pen 15 at a time and walked through them, with some efforts, to jab them.

Just a shame the sterimatic injectors are only 2mm.
Don’t you find your wrestling with everyone to keep its head still while it’s fighting you, an you end up jabbing it twice or more?? We do bought in ewes with it if I can’t dip them for a while an honestly I find it horrendous to do, an we’ve got hundreds so I should know what I’m doing but that job makes a dîck out of me 😩
 

Jerry

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Devon
Don’t you find your wrestling with everyone to keep its head still while it’s fighting you, an you end up jabbing it twice or more?? We do bought in ewes with it if I can’t dip them for a while an honestly I find it horrendous to do, an we’ve got hundreds so I should know what I’m doing but that job makes a dîck out of me 😩

Yes, theres a bit of a struggle but having them jammed in a pen tight seemed to help. In all honesty I dont know if I will get them all done tomorrow with other stuff going on but it looks like only dry day this week!
 

Guleesh

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Isle of Skye
If you really want to restrain the head for injecting then I find it best to work in a race or at least have the sheep penned tight , work from behind them and use your free hand to bend the head back towards you so the sheep is restrained and the neck is then stretched out under you, usually opening up the fleece so you can see the skin and you can take your time and do as you please with your injection. I've got a long race I can fill with sheep and work my way up and I do like to administer injections in this way.

However, when you're in a ramshackle pen, it's going dark, raining and midgey and you need to jab a couple of hundred blackie lambs that are covered in mud, jumping all over each other and won't stay still for more than a second, then.....
.... jabbing cockily away
seems to work fine. when the lambs don't die of braxy and the sheep don't have scab then I think it's safe to assume they were injected properly.
 

Bury the Trash

Member
Mixed Farmer
I know this guy is drenching but this is how we also do sub-cut injections (but as @JSmith says above, still not great for those bloody stupid ear jabs)
combi c is the best thing ive used for neck injection , let the sheep up forward with its neck just out a bit forward of the front end of the clamp surely , to get a good choice of target
 

Robin2020

Member
Livestock Farmer
Good observation.
imo if you cant get someone to help how bout building a simple clamp or squeezer,
because its important to not have them jumping up or about for a good job (or jab :sneaky:) reliably to be made to all......
..... jabbing cockily away down through a race is as you note just poor stockman ship.
you don't want a jab yourself either ;)
Yes I think a clamp may help as it frees up a hand. Wish I had got one when the grants were available 😪
 

Robin2020

Member
Livestock Farmer
If you really want to restrain the head for injecting then I find it best to work in a race or at least have the sheep penned tight , work from behind them and use your free hand to bend the head back towards you so the sheep is restrained and the neck is then stretched out under you, usually opening up the fleece so you can see the skin and you can take your time and do as you please with your injection. I've got a long race I can fill with sheep and work my way up and I do like to administer injections in this way.

However, when you're in a ramshackle pen, it's going dark, raining and midgey and you need to jab a couple of hundred blackie lambs that are covered in mud, jumping all over each other and won't stay still for more than a second, then.....

seems to work fine. when the lambs don't die of braxy and the sheep don't have scab then I think it's safe to assume they were injected properly.
Yes I totally get this. I do wonder just how important the depth of injection is. Enzovax states either under skin or in muscle....
 

Guleesh

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Isle of Skye
Yes I totally get this. I do wonder just how important the depth of injection is. Enzovax states either under skin or in muscle....
I've seen thousands of quick jabs into necks with no ill effects and the product administered achieving its goal, I don't really think it matters too much. That said I genuinely try my best with every jab I give, to put it in the right place and right depth, It is a job that you get much quicker at with plenty practice.
 

Al R

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
West Wales
Yes I think a clamp may help as it frees up a hand. Wish I had got one when the grants were available 😪
You can get the combi clamp with a lower side on the near side which would work better for ear and lambs and tagging especially.
@Jerry put a longer needle on the sterimatic you should be able to get up to 1/2” sticking out
 

Electricfencer

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Cotswolds
The one I’d love somebody to show me how easy it can be done is cydectin below the ear!! I absolutely hate doing that, unless I’m doing it totally wrong, I don’t see how you deal with the ewe flinching when needle goes in unless you e got its head clamped in a vice!! Glad we don’t do it very often but I can’t get my head round how to do it efficiently when doing hundreds, such a ball ache !🤬
This I probably going to make no sense, I pull the ear down to the jaw with thump and jam 2 fingers under the jaw while pulling her head tight into my chest, I seem to have knack now, I did 1100 hep and cydectin 2% on mule lambs yesterday.
As for Hep as long as they are tight up a race (but maybe not a single file one :scratchhead:) its pretty easy, get in there with them and jam your knee behind to push her up tight, pull the skin up with on hand a jab with the other.
 

Jerry

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Devon
You can get the combi clamp with a lower side on the near side which would work better for ear and lambs and tagging especially.
@Jerry put a longer needle on the sterimatic you should be able to get up to 1/2” sticking out

Needle not an issue. It’s when dose is 3mm and they only deliver 2mm, can’t find one that does more than 2mm
 

Jerry

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Devon
Needle not an issue. It’s when dose is 3mm and they only deliver 2mm, can’t find one that does more than 2mm

You can get the combi clamp with a lower side on the near side which would work better for ear and lambs and tagging especially.
@Jerry put a longer needle on the sterimatic you should be able to get up to 1/2” sticking out

And another searh this monring and found an adjustable sterimatic one up to 5ml, so Ive ordred that and will wait till it comes to jab the main mob. Should speed things up a lot.

 
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neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire

Have a look at these clamps. Similar to the combi. They’ve said in a post this week that the grant scheme in England is opening up again this autumn!

I’ve looked at those before. They look a lot simpler (cheaper?) than a CombiClamp, with a lot better way of fitting the weighbars, and a lot shallower angle on the lead up ramp, which should help sheep flow.
The ramp is also adjustable in width and has some great anti-backing wings in.

I’ve already fitted the wings in my CombiClamp race, as well as reduced the angle. Next job is to rebuild the ramp so that I can make one side adjustable, then it’ll be nearly as good as the Hecton….
 

Nithsdale Farmer

Member
Livestock Farmer
Does nobody else just inject them in the loose skin behind the shoulder? Fill a single file, or 3ft, race and just keep moving.

The sheep don't need restrained. 1 hand is free to pinch the skin every time. It's very quick and very easy, which limits handling time reducing the stress on the sheep.





I've never used Cydectin though, so have never attempted the ear injection thing. And honestly, I hope I never need to
 

Robin2020

Member
Livestock Farmer
This I probably going to make no sense, I pull the ear down to the jaw with thump and jam 2 fingers under the jaw while pulling her head tight into my chest, I seem to have knack now, I did 1100 hep and cydectin 2% on mule lambs yesterday.
As for Hep as long as they are tight up a race (but maybe not a single file one :scratchhead:) its pretty easy, get in there with them and jam your knee behind to push her up tight, pull the skin up with on hand a jab with the other.
Think I'm gonna need a drawing of this!!! Sort of get it...
 

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