Raven Cull

[Macsky]

Yeah ravens are new thing.

They only evolved last Wednesday.

Marginal land's contribution to the nation's food supply is marginal.

And it's not like the developed world is facing starvation at the moment. Quite the opposite.

There's an environmental argument for getting sheep off the uplands. Insisting you need to kill wildlife to make it worth your while to continue to farm sheep on the uplands only strengthens that argument.

No ravens aren’t a new thing, but I’m sure they have been controlled by man for a long time.

‘Marginal’ land can contribute a lot of food to the nation, and more diverse and expansive methods of producing food will have many other benefits, mainly to support the people that have existed on and worked the land for generations.

I didn’t say that I was working on an upland farm. Supposing it was, it is about the most environmentally friendly farming system that exists!

Tell me again what is the problem in controlling raven numbers? Or foxes, or badgers?

 

[Macsky]

So in removing food production from the more marginal areas you would prefer to see it further intensified on better ground?

 

[Fallowfield]

So in removing food production from the more marginal areas you would prefer to see it further intensified on better ground?

It would be a matter of judgement is assessing the adverse impacts of the alternatives.

The point is that if a particular method is no longer sustainable then it is doomed.

 

[Macsky]

And what is making it unsustainable? A proliferation of predators!

 

[Fallowfield]

And what is making it unsustainable? A proliferation of predators!

In which case society would have to decide whether it wants wildlife or sheep.

I'm not sure how that would work out.

 

[Dry Rot]

Because the rat is non native and the native species haven't evolved to cope with its impact.

Ah! A new member for my Society for the Protection of the Black Rat, sometimes referred to as the English Black Rat. Of course, they have only been here for about 2,000 years so not really indigenous.

The Society aims to reintroduce the indigenous black rat to it's former native habitat, starting with Whitehall in London where it's welfare can be looked after by those best qualified to do so, namely civil servants. It shouldn't take long for these people to evolve (re-evolve?) to co-exist with dear little beats as the black rat was once common in London.

I heard a whisper that the RSPB is controlling crows on some of it's nature reserves. Who put out such disgraceful propaganda? Surely that is just a downright lie as we know the birds don't do any real harm.

 

[Macsky]

And society would know best, when it’s led by enviro extremists such as Chris Packham!?

In fact, are you he?

 

[Fallowfield]

Ah! A new member for my Society for the Protection of the Black Rat, sometimes referred to as the English Black Rat. Of course, they have only been here for about 2,000 years so not really indigenous.

The Society aims to reintroduce the indigenous black rat to it's former native habitat, starting with Whitehall in London where it's welfare can be looked after by those best qualified to do so, namely civil servants. It shouldn't take long for these people to evolve (re-evolve?) to co-exist with dear little beats as the black rat was once common in London.

I heard a whisper that the RSPB is controlling crows on some of it's nature reserves. Who put out such disgraceful propaganda? Surely that is just a downright lie as we know the birds don't do any real harm.

It's well known that the RSPB controls selective predators on some of its reserves.

I'm not sure why you think that's surprising.

Unless you haven't been able to understand the arguments.

 

[Dry Rot]

It's well known that the RSPB controls selective predators on some of its reserves.

I'm not sure why you think that's surprising.

Unless you haven't been able to understand the arguments.

So, do you approve of the RSPB's actions and can you confirm you will be supporting the black rat society?

 

[Fallowfield]

And society would know best, when it’s led by enviro extremists such as Chris Packham!?

In fact, are you he?

So, do you approve of the RSPB's actions and can you confirm you will be supporting the black rat society?

I've no problem with predator control where it's necessary and appropriate.

The sanctioned cull of ravens is neither.

 

[Macsky]

In your opinion.

 

[Dry Rot]

In your opinion.

Oh, come on now, be fair! He's an expert -- so someone who knows more and more about less and less, until he finally knows absolutely everything...about nothing! You keep going, fallowfield, old chap, can't be far now!

 

[Fallowfield]

'Groupthink is a phenomenon when a group of people get together and start to think collectively with one mind. The group is more concerned with maintaining unity than with objectively evaluating their situation, alternatives and options.'

 

[SLA]


What like maintaining their opinion despite photographic and video evidence and eye witness accounts to the contrary?

 

[Fallowfield]


What like maintaining their opinion despite photographic and video evidence and eye witness accounts to the contrary?

You haven't provided any video evidence of ravens attacking healthy livestock.

You've posted a video of a couped ewe that you claim was in perfect health before it ended up on its back, with a voice over from someone saying he heard ravens but who doesn't claim to have seen them attack and a video of some crows pecking at a lamb, which was completely unharmed.

You'll understand why I remain unconvinced that ravens are attacking healthy and uninjured livestock on a regular basis.

 

[SLA]

We've already established that unless you are physically present yourself to inspect the health of every single sheep in the 10 seconds before every attack then you don't (and probably still won't) believe it's happening at all.
You have never answered a single question just harped on about hen harriers.
Seriously if it's not ravens removing eyes, tongues and intestines of otherwise healthy lambs and sheep ( the clue is the fact they are still alive despite the removal of eyes, tongues and guts) what/who should we be blaming?!
If you had any interest in the facts you wouldnt be requesting videos, you'd be asking to go see for yourself, it's amazing what you can learn from actual practical experience!
So AGAIN how do you explain new born/and being born lambs with missing eyes and tongues? Obviously you have far superior knowledge than anyone else on here so please enlighten us...

 

[Fallowfield]

We've already established that unless you are physically present yourself to inspect the health of every single sheep in the 10 seconds before every attack then you don't (and probably still won't) believe it's happening at all.
You have never answered a single question just harped on about hen harriers.
Seriously if it's not ravens removing eyes, tongues and intestines of otherwise healthy lambs and sheep ( the clue is the fact they are still alive despite the removal of eyes, tongues and guts) what/who should we be blaming?!
If you had any interest in the facts you wouldnt be requesting videos, you'd be asking to go see for yourself, it's amazing what you can learn from actual practical experience!
So AGAIN how do you explain new born/and being born lambs with missing eyes and tongues? Obviously you have far superior knowledge than anyone else on here so please enlighten us...

Tell me, do you have a lot of trouble with ravens predating your livestock in Lincolnshire?

 

[Dry Rot]

Tell me, do you have a lot of trouble with ravens predating your livestock in Lincolnshire?

Practice makes perfect. Fallowfield is really getting quite good at evading straight forward questions, isn't he?

 

[Fallowfield]

Practice makes perfect. Fallowfield is really getting quite good at evading straight forward questions, isn't he?

I'll take that as a no then.

Do you have many ravens in Lincolnshire?

 

[SLA]

Not at present but Im sure if you had your way there would be, although there have for many years been ravens not far from here and they are regularly seen in neighbouring counties. If you reread my posts I have never claimed to suffer from raven predation, I can simply grasp the concept that it can/is happening elsewhere, and with many years experience in - I know you'll struggle with this - agriculture and conservation I do have some relevant experience to call on.
There, question answered your turn