Real food packaging

[onesiedale]

Food packaging has always been one of the biggest factors in the route to market for many products. The packaging industry is very influential in food product development.
It will be interesting to see how this spat pans out -

Vegan ‘dairy’ products face EU ban from using milk cartons and yoghurt pots – and UK could be next

Oatly and Flora are fronting a petition to stop the EU getting even tougher on their packaging.

theconversation.com

 

[delilah]

If interpreted broadly, the amendment could prevent them from including claims or denominations such as “dairy”, “creamy”, “yoghurt-style dessert” or “does not contain milk”. They would also be unable to use packaging designs that call to mind dairy products, such as yoghurt pots or milk cartons. Even simply showing climate impact by comparing the carbon footprint of their products with dairy equivalents could become illegal.

I don't understand that paragraph from the article. It reads as if the 'climate impact' claims are less important than the type of packaging.
Surely it is the other way round ? If oat milk firms want to use a tetrapak then why not, no different from an orange juice firm doing the same. Dairy can't have a monopoly on a style of packaging. The milkman delivers all sorts of product in milk bottles.
The environmental claims of these alternatives to cows milk are the biggy. Yet that seems to be dismissed as an afterthought to the type of packaging. Very odd.

 

[Tarw Coch]

If interpreted broadly, the amendment could prevent them from including claims or denominations such as “dairy”, “creamy”, “yoghurt-style dessert” or “does not contain milk”. They would also be unable to use packaging designs that call to mind dairy products, such as yoghurt pots or milk cartons. Even simply showing climate impact by comparing the carbon footprint of their products with dairy equivalents could become illegal.

I don't understand that paragraph from the article. It reads as if the 'climate impact' claims are less important than the type of packaging.
Surely it is the other way round ? If oat milk firms want to use a tetrapak then why not, no different from an orange juice firm doing the same. Dairy can't have a monopoly on a style of packaging. The milkman delivers all sorts of product in milk bottles.
The environmental claims of these alternatives to cows milk are the biggy. Yet that seems to be dismissed as an afterthought to the type of packaging. Very odd.

When I read it, they referred to the animal welfare and environmental impact of milk production as if it was fact/ could be taken for granted they were bad, no attempt to explain why they thought it was bad , more an indisputable fact, dairy is bad

 

[delilah]

When I read it, they referred to the animal welfare and environmental impact of milk production as if it was fact/ could be taken for granted they were bad, no attempt to explain why they thought it was bad , more an indisputable fact, dairy is bad

OK, got it, they are taking that as a given. When you click on the 'climate impact' link in the article, it takes you to an article saying that avoiding meat and dairy is the biggest way to help the environment.
An article based on the work of Joseph Poore.
There is only one way that this avalanche of criticism of our industry is going to be stopped. By cutting out all of the apologizing and instead rubbishing these experts, by pointing out that their science is a crock of sh!t.
Any chance of our national representative bodies doing this ?

 

[Steevo]

If interpreted broadly, the amendment could prevent them from including claims or denominations such as “dairy”, “creamy”, “yoghurt-style dessert” or “does not contain milk”. They would also be unable to use packaging designs that call to mind dairy products, such as yoghurt pots or milk cartons. Even simply showing climate impact by comparing the carbon footprint of their products with dairy equivalents could become illegal.

I don't understand that paragraph from the article. It reads as if the 'climate impact' claims are less important than the type of packaging.
Surely it is the other way round ? If oat milk firms want to use a tetrapak then why not, no different from an orange juice firm doing the same. Dairy can't have a monopoly on a style of packaging. The milkman delivers all sorts of product in milk bottles.
The environmental claims of these alternatives to cows milk are the biggy. Yet that seems to be dismissed as an afterthought to the type of packaging. Very odd.

I think it means that Oat "milk" isn't a milk, so cannot be compared on the packaging to a proper milk in any way. Doing so (even in climate impact terms) would suggest the two were similar/comparative/alternatives etc.

I think the hiccup is that they [vegan brands] are trying to subtly suggest that their product is a milk-type product, by comparing it with real milk. It creates a link in the head of the customer that one is like the other when they are nothing like one another, other than they are white liquids.

 

[Steevo]

OK, got it, they are taking that as a given. When you click on the 'climate impact' link in the article, it takes you to an article saying that avoiding meat and dairy is the biggest way to help the environment.
An article based on the work of Joseph Poore.
There is only one way that this avalanche of criticism of our industry is going to be stopped. By cutting out all of the apologizing and instead rubbishing these experts, by pointing out that their science is a crock of sh!t.
Any chance of our national representative bodies doing this ?

Are there any vegan products that carry the RT logo?

 

[onesiedale]

OK, got it, they are taking that as a given. When you click on the 'climate impact' link in the article, it takes you to an article saying that avoiding meat and dairy is the biggest way to help the environment.
An article based on the work of Joseph Poore.
There is only one way that this avalanche of criticism of our industry is going to be stopped. By cutting out all of the apologizing and instead rubbishing these experts, by pointing out that their science is a crock of sh!t.
Any chance of our national representative bodies doing this ?

You've spotted it. The PR and campaign money behind this isn't the packaging companies looking after their traditional customers, it's 3 steps further back. It's the global investment corporations behind the plant based movement and it's ability to disrupt. Disruption provides the investors a global opportunity to make big money.
There's no science or emotion behind any of it, just corporate pressure.

 

[Tarw Coch]

I think it means that Oat "milk" isn't a milk, so cannot be compared on the packaging to a proper milk in any way. Doing so (even in climate impact terms) would suggest the two were similar/comparative/alternatives etc.

I think the hiccup is that they [vegan brands] are trying to subtly suggest that their product is a milk-type product, by comparing it with real milk. It creates a link in the head of the customer that one is like the other when they are nothing like one another, other than they are white liquids.

Oatly has probably got more in common with Ribenna than cows milk

 

[delilah]

It's the global investment corporations behind the plant based movement and it's ability to disrupt.

Plant based movement, or manufactured food movement ? Are oatly and their ilk backed by global corporations ? On the face of it, a farmer growing a field of oats should have as much autonomy as a dairy farmer ? Or is there some process involved in making oat milk that someone has a patent on ?
The manufactured food I get, there must be huge sums to be made in controlling that, but I would have thought the dairy farmer and the oat grower have more in common ?

 

[onesiedale]

Plant based movement, or manufactured food movement ? Are oatly and their ilk backed by global corporations ? On the face of it, a farmer growing a field of oats should have as much autonomy as a dairy farmer ? Or is there some process involved in making oat milk that someone has a patent on ?
The manufactured food I get, there must be huge sums to be made in controlling that, but I would have thought the dairy farmer and the oat grower have more in common ?

How Oatly chose cash over brand

When Blackstone bought 10% of Oatly, it wasn't the first time they got a controversial shareholder. In 2016, China Resources had the same effect on consumers.

sifted.eu

Don't think that the oat growing farmers have much say in it.

 

[delilah]

How Oatly chose cash over brand

When Blackstone bought 10% of Oatly, it wasn't the first time they got a controversial shareholder. In 2016, China Resources had the same effect on consumers.

sifted.eu

Don't think that the oat growing farmers have much say in it.

OK, to use an analogy then.
Back in the day, Ecover was the brand of choice for households wanting a green cleaner. Ecover then sold out to the parent company of Group 4, who were implicated in dodgy going on in the security/ prison world. Hard core greenies switched to Bio D and other ethical companies.
Point being, there must be an oat milk producer who is as farmer friendly and ethical as a dairy farm selling direct ? Being plant based isn't, in itself, an issue ?

 

[onesiedale]

there must be an oat milk producer who is as farmer friendly and ethical as a dairy farm selling direct ? Being plant based isn't, in itself, an issue ?

There probably is a direct selling ethical oat milk farmer. Somehow I think they'll be hard to find.

 

[delilah]

There probably is a direct selling ethical oat milk farmer. Somehow I think they'll be hard to find.

ooh I like a challenge .
Whatever I can find now, I would say that as the market develops the oat milk farmers will be in the exact same position as the dairy farmers. Their fortunes will be totally determined by the structure of the marketplace within which they operate. Either a few operating in a niche doing direct sales, whilst the cartel who control 90% of the market are supplied by an ever shrinking number of contracted producers. Or everyone having a degree of control over who they sell to and at what price, due to the cartel having been dismantled and there being true competition in the marketplace. Market share is the root of all evil, whether you're an oat grower or a cowman.

 

[delilah]

https://www.glebefarmfoods.co.uk/about-us/about-glebe-farm/


Only one out there at the moment from what they say.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Food packaging has always been one of the biggest factors in the route to market for many products. The packaging industry is very influential in food product development.
It will be interesting to see how this spat pans out -

Vegan ‘dairy’ products face EU ban from using milk cartons and yoghurt pots – and UK could be next

Oatly and Flora are fronting a petition to stop the EU getting even tougher on their packaging.

theconversation.com

This comparison is interesting:

???? Oat Milk VS Cows Milk, Which is Healthier? | 9 To 5 Nutrition

Oat Milk is gaining popularity at an alarming rate, but why? I sreally any better than cows milk for fat loss, mucle-building for health? Find out here.

9-to-5-nutrition.com

Also, I've just finished reading Dr Malcolm Kandrick's "The great cholesterol con" with huge relevance after my heart attack. He is very clear that saturated fat consumption is actually a good thing and that low cholesterol is a risk to neurological health.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

This comparison is interesting: https://9-to-5-nutrition.com/oat-milk-vs-cows-milk/

 

[neilo]

Did nobody else note the pictures used, and the captions attached to them? I think they give a good indication as to the author’s/editor’s leanings.