Really ?

[neilo]

Council tax bills would treble for middle-class homeowners under Labour plans to introduce a so-called “garden tax” on the value of land, it was claimed last night.
The Labour manifesto contains plans for a Land Value Tax to replace council tax, which would hit people with gardens the hardest.
The manifesto contains no detail of how the tax would be applied, but the Conservatives claim tax on the the average family home would go up from £1,185 to £3,837 per year, an increase of £2,651

Because the tax would also apply to agricultural land, it could have a knock-on effect of driving up food prices.
The policy was described as “nonsensical” by Boris Johnson, the Foreign Secretary, who said it would “bring misery to every single family in Britain”.
While council tax works by taxing the overall value of a property, Land Value Tax would impose an annual charge on the rental value of land, not counting any improvements such as houses built on it.

Unless that's from a very old report, Erratic Boris isn’t the Foreign Secretary, and hasn’t been since he ran away from that responsibility too....

Corbyn’s policies are mostly based around the wealthy paying more, to look after those less well off. On that basis those owning land, or other assets, will feel fingers prising their wallets from their pockets. Right on Comrade.

 

[Tarw Coch]

Don't like the whole "look at me" idea says the guy with 21,000 posts!

Yes, but who highlighted that fact? I wouldn’t have had a clue and certainly can’t be arsed to look.

 

[neilo]

Don't like the whole "look at me" idea says the guy with 21,000 posts!

Is it that many?

If it is, then that’s a reflection on spending too much time avoiding sh*te on the tele of an evening, and trying to avoid making up those HSE rules that some seem to treat with so much glee.

That, and I quite enjoy the banter on here on occasion.

 

[Bury the Trash]

Don't like the whole "look at me" idea says the guy with 21,000 posts!

Whatever.


He adds more knowledge to the sheep part of the forum at least, than any other poster

 

[Cowcorn]

See that article in the FW ?

Total output in the last 40 years down 37%
Profit down 43%
Farmer numbers down 52%
Farm workers down 40%
Dairy cow numbers down 45% ( output up 8% )
Cereals area down 15% ( output up 50% )

Land price £5650 / acre in 1973...... miss print surely ?

Anyhoo.........the glory years under the CAP..

The cause of all this is we produce to much for much less than we did fifty years ago . The only way to maintain income is get more acres more cows etc . The game of farming musical chairs means fewer farmers with bigger holdings producing more for less. Tech advances are a double edged sword which initally benefit the farmer but ultimately beggars him . Gmo tech in the Americas has resulted in bumper maize crops every year and cash strapped farmers!! The glut of maize on the world market is a driving down the feed wheat price even though Austrailian production has been severely curtailed by drought. Whats the answer ???? Replies on a postcard please !!!

 

[Cowcorn]

Nowt to do with the cap,exploited by the supermarkets and processors.
Never be much profit in the job anymore now the Irish own most of the killing plants.

True but ol larry is an equal opportunities kind of fella he RIDES everyone!!

 

[Farm buy]

Think the land price would have been £565/ac and would have seemed expensive to those buying at the time.

Otherwise I can believe those stats although I am surprised that dairy output is only up 8% after 40 odd years of genetic improvements and better understanding of cow nutrition. On a cow per cow basis ie comparing a mid 70s cow to a 2019 cow, I would have thought it would be chalk & cheese

I would think it would have doubled

 

[glasshouse]

Hi, fairly new to the forum, personally I think farm rationalisation is only going one way, and brexit will be the catalyst that puts it in to overdrive. We will competing on a global stage with no subs to hide behind. Farms will either expand rapidly, or the risk averse will just sit on assets and not invest, these will be the last generation of their family to farm, as in time their holding become more and more unviable. Sorry if that upsets some of you, but it is my opinion, and I do hope it does not materialise.
But most of the rationalisation that has happened in the past is not down to the CAP, but rather technology, be it in machinery, atomisation or agrochemicals. Just imagine having to plough 2000 acres with a 2wd ford 4000!!! It has happens because technology has enabled a rapid increase in productivity

Rubbish
The CAP guaranteed the price of grain, with no limit, so it allowed the greedy to expand and allowed landlords to evict tenants on arable land.
Farming skills were not required.
That was bad, but iacs and sfp made it even worse.
Cap madness has dragged technology along, eg the claas 40ft lexion.
They wouldn't exist in uk without CAP stupidity

 

[neilo]

Whatever.


He adds more knowledge to the sheep part of the forum at least, than any other poster

Thank you, that's very kind, although I think the beauty of this forum is that we all gain knowledge from everyone by sharing experiences.

 

[7610 super q]

Total output down 37% ?

Really?

Farming produces 37% less now than it did 40 years ago? Despite crop science advances, efficient feed converting animals and high yielding cows?

I don't know. The land price figure is clearly wrong, so maybe the rest isn't accurate either.
But it wouldn't surprise me......small mixed farms using plenty of FYM, attention to detail etc, etc. Yields haven't risen since the mid 80's. That's a 30 year stagnation for a start. No one's going to invest much in R & D if prices are stuck in a time warp.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

I don't know. The land price figure is clearly wrong, so maybe the rest isn't accurate either.
But it wouldn't surprise me......small mixed farms using plenty of FYM, attention to detail etc, etc. Yields haven't risen since the mid 80's. That's a 30 year stagnation for a start. No one's going to invest much in R & D if prices are stuck in a time warp.

The biggest advances in livestock farming would be 1960 to 1975 . My dad would have been one of the first to put cubicles and a milking parlour in in this area and silage really took off along with advances in pasture management . Lime and reseeding grants being a big help
I see farming now as 2cd division in comparison

 

[Bill]

I remember a chems rep in the 70's telling me all livestock farmers should be spraying for rust and mildew to maximise yields, ( I think a couple of then new varieties were susceptable). A good job we didn't go down that route.

 

[Cab-over Pete]

I don't know. The land price figure is clearly wrong, so maybe the rest isn't accurate either.
But it wouldn't surprise me......small mixed farms using plenty of FYM, attention to detail etc, etc. Yields haven't risen since the mid 80's. That's a 30 year stagnation for a start. No one's going to invest much in R & D if prices are stuck in a time warp.

Having just read the article in FW I think the total output quoted was purely financial rather than actual tonnes/litres of commodities

 

[Steevo]

Total output down 37% ?

Really?

Farming produces 37% less now than it did 40 years ago? Despite crop science advances, efficient feed converting animals and high yielding cows?

I think output in this case is measured in £ value rather than weight/volume.

Yes we’re producing lots more, but multiply by the price and inflation it reflects slightly differently.

 

[fgc325j]

So, is it just me then that's shocked that 50% of farmers have disappeared in one generation ?
Thinking about it, there's been a similar decline in ship building , mining, car manufacturing...... Maybe the shock is there's still 50% of us left....

According to the statistics the majority of Farmers's are aged 55+, so you could argue that those left are
the ones to stubborn to hand the reins over to the next generation.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

According to the statistics the majority of Farmers's are aged 55+, so you could argue that those left are
the ones to stubborn to hand the reins over to the next generation.

One thing I have learnt in farming is you cant generalize. I would have loved my boy to take over but he is not interested and I wont be forcing him
Farming is like a box of chocolates. That's part of the problem I would think

 

[Highland Mule]

One thing I have learnt in farming is you cant generalize. I would have loved my boy to take over but he is not interested and I wont be forcing him
Farming is like a box of chocolates. That's part of the problem I would think

Never say never @Forage Trader - this forum is filled with guys and gals that have taken to or gone back to agriculture after a successful career elsewhere.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

So, is it just me then that's shocked that 50% of farmers have disappeared in one generation ?
Thinking about it, there's been a similar decline in ship building , mining, car manufacturing...... Maybe the shock is there's still 50% of us left....

One thing that fecks it is that "they" (whomever that may be) create employment in urban areas, usually 9 to 5, usually hard for farmers to actually compete with set hours of work, walk to the shops and schools, and a salary that supports living the way you want to (as opposed to how you need to).

Basically, agriculture is a nation's wealth, but when the money comes, that money goes to town and stays there... so you have these compounding factors: carbon is nature's currency, money is mankind's currency - and in line with the "how long til we're all organic" thread's theme, it always ends up not where it came from.

"They" wouldn't want it any other way, which is why they pay most farmers in the world to keep milking the cow, so in turn they too can be milked.

 

[Grassman]

So, is it just me then that's shocked that 50% of farmers have disappeared in one generation ?
Thinking about it, there's been a similar decline in ship building , mining, car manufacturing...... Maybe the shock is there's still 50% of us left....

50% in one generation is probably a hell of a lot less than what was lost when mechanisation began and horse farming ended.

 

[bobk]

See that article in the FW ?

Total output in the last 40 years down 37%
Profit down 43%
Farmer numbers down 52%
Farm workers down 40%
Dairy cow numbers down 45% ( output up 8% )
Cereals area down 15% ( output up 50% )

Land price £5650 / acre in 1973...... miss print surely ?

Anyhoo.........the glory years under the CAP..

All true I suspect , aside from the land prices , less is more .