Recession my arse

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
I've written this time and time again. It's called fudge you capitalism and it needs to stop. I want to tax these people and put the smackers on companies paying people like this. That money was generated from within the UK from the UK populace and far more of it belongs in the piggy bank of the exchequer. Maybe then we shouldn't have such high levels of public debt, roads that aren't ever repaired properly and public services that work and better yet, protect and enhance the lives of millions of people who are have nots and will never be haves unless something systemic is changed.
It would be as well to forget taxing them - just strip them of wealth and redistribute it back into the ground-level stuff.
Infrastructure. Housing. Healthcare.

Most of the more successful civilisations gone have had a policy of redistributing wealth at the end of each generation

the problem is these large corporate entities never die, just morph and meld, so wealth is not "cyclical" but keeps "going upwards"

If they want to do a "Great Reset" then it would be a great place to start resetting and restoring, which is why it won't happen that way
 

jackrussell101

Member
Mixed Farmer
Watched a Wall Street Journal video on YouTube the other night calling this the ''job full'' recession, so far at least, surely at some point the interest rate will start to bite and slow down/layoffs etc will start to kick in... but when will that be I wonder?

They reckon each rate rise takes 2 full years to sink in and filter through. Personally if there was a recession before long I could see rates start to come back down.
 
There are so many total arseholes who own “estates “ (farms) now with no clue, they are the ones that cant get staff
Was told last night of a local estate owner who has taken farms back in hand and was touring the farms with his new estate manager when they bumped into one of their former tenants. Estate owner introduced the new estate manager to the former tenant along with a young lady, their new consultant.
So you two need an 18 year old girl to tell you what to do was his reply.
 

DaveGrohl

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Cumbria
Watched a Wall Street Journal video on YouTube the other night calling this the ''job full'' recession, so far at least, surely at some point the interest rate will start to bite and slow down/layoffs etc will start to kick in... but when will that be I wonder?

They reckon each rate rise takes 2 full years to sink in and filter through. Personally if there was a recession before long I could see rates start to come back down.
Part of the reason they’re raising rates is so that they have somewhere to go now the slowdown has begun. Once it really gets going they’ll be desperate to drop them again at the earliest possible opportunity.
 

DaveGrohl

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Cumbria
Was told last night of a local estate owner who has taken farms back in hand and was touring the farms with his new estate manager when they bumped into one of their former tenants. Estate owner introduced the new estate manager to the former tenant along with a young lady, their new consultant.
So you two need an 18 year old girl to tell you what to do was his reply.
That is comical and terrifying at the same time.
 

willyorkshire

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
East Yorkshire
Watched a Wall Street Journal video on YouTube the other night calling this the ''job full'' recession, so far at least, surely at some point the interest rate will start to bite and slow down/layoffs etc will start to kick in... but when will that be I wonder?

They reckon each rate rise takes 2 full years to sink in and filter through. Personally if there was a recession before long I could see rates start to come back down.
In the 90s interest rates were in the mid teens, up to 17 at one point. We still borrowed money to develop our business. We've got so used to very low rates that raising 1/4% appears to be the end of the world. If a business model, or even a house purchase, depends on low interest rates, it's not a very safe model.
 

digger64

Member
Well after todays announcement from the Bank of England , there is something very very very wrong in the system...

So... let me get this straight:

* British Gas made a profit of ÂŁ1.3bn between January & June
* BP announced profits of ÂŁ6.95 billion between April and June alone
* Shell has profited by ÂŁ9.4bn in a year

The MEN at the top:
* John Pettigrew, boss of National Grid received ÂŁ6.5m bonus on top of his salary
* Chris O’Shea, chief executive of British Gas owner Centrica was paid almost £2m last year in salary and benefits
* Centrica's non-executive directors were paid almost ÂŁ1m
* Scottish Power's CEO Keith Anderson is on ÂŁ1.15m.
* E.On boss Michael Lewis is on ÂŁ1m
* EDF's Simone Rossi is also on ÂŁ1m
* And their top execs enjoyed a share of ÂŁ4.65m
* Peter Simpson of Anglian Water earned a ÂŁ1.3m pay package
* Welsh Water bosses awarded themselves bonuses of over ÂŁ930,000
* Severn Trent bosses awarded themselves bonuses of ÂŁ5.56m

* Thames Water's Sarah Bentley, received a ÂŁ727,000 bonus on top of her ÂŁ2m annual salary

Meanwhile there are...

* People who haven't had breakfast and/or lunch TODAY, because they can't afford it.
* People using FoodBanks because food is becoming more of a luxury than a necessity.
* Children celebrating a birthday without presents.
* Parents worrying about new school uniforms - and some schools enforcing rules which are not cost-effective.
* People who can't get to work because they can't afford to put petrol in their cars/pay for public transport anymore.
* People who are working so much they're making themselves ill, and they STILL CAN'T AFFORD to pay their bills.
* People who have been given fines by these same energy/water companies because they couldn't afford to pay their bills in the first place - increasing their debt.
* Customers being told to do STAR JUMPS TO KEEP WARM for crying out loud!
* Hose pipe bans when gallons of water leak away everyday.
* Elderly people NOT DRINKING because they're worried about running out of water!!!

All this and energy prices are set to rise up to 75% in October...

THIS IS MADNESS!.. I'm all for supporting profits ..I'm not for supporting greed at the cost of lives of others..

Something needs to change..

Why are customers' money being used to make life more comfortable for those who are making life more intolerable for the rest of us?
I actually don't understand how the energy companies are allowed to get away with this and why the government aren't stopping them instead of handing out money.....
The answer is simple stop taxing things ALL people/business's need /use on a daily basis like fuel ,food , alcohol and 20% vat on everything -alot of people might as well not bother getting up in the morning . How can people on ÂŁ9.50 an hour go and buy a pint at ÂŁ4.50 or fish and chips at ÂŁ11 ?
Start taxing where the money is -property/profit and remove exemptions reliefs etc. and end the obsession with house prices/ land values/high rents etc - the "opportunity cost " is destroying everything - do other countries have town centres full of charity shops ?
What is the point in asking people for money if they havent actually got any ?
Yes I know all the foreign money will go away-who cares ? , but you might be able afford somewhere to live though , your crops and stock might actually pay your mortgage and give you a salary .
What is point in putting/investing the nations working capital into some thing it already has bought and paid for generations ago ? -the recreation of a victorian economic values era perhaps ?

Nearly everything we buy on the farm is imported -things just cant be made/moved around
competitively here why ?
But such a policy wouldnt get you elected though as house prices are everything .
But they also say you cant buck the market -its going to be interesting soon .
 
In the 90s interest rates were in the mid teens, up to 17 at one point. We still borrowed money to develop our business. We've got so used to very low rates that raising 1/4% appears to be the end of the world. If a business model, or even a house purchase, depends on low interest rates, it's not a very safe model.
Apparently a 1% increase on today’s “average mortgage” translates to an over £500 increase on the monthly payment .
I foresee rows and rows of “house for sale” signs if that’s the case including BTL’s.
 

Jackov Altraids

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Devon
I really think this is worth a listen.

I agreed with Andrew Bailey from the Bank of England but I have to say the Chief economist of the TUC made me change my mind, or at least reconsider.

Starts 1hr 10minutes in;

 

bluebell

Member
The thing thats driven the UKs economy increasinley, since the end of WW2, is debt, and borrowing, ease of credit, lisen to your fathers, mothers or grandfathers, my dad started his business in the late 50s early 1960s, getting finance to either buy plant and machinery or" hire purchase" to buy household items was a lot harder and more regulated then, than now. Its been shown in many examples that the seller, salesman, morgage, provider, only interest in many cases is getting his "comission" and not in the lender, buyers realist safe? ability to pay service the loan, debt. You no what, in a few generations we have gone from a nation of savers to a nation owing? Thats born out with the other thread, what did you want save for and not buy? My generation were savers, we saved money as children, had saterday jobs, saved up in post office accounts, etc, i saved up for my first car, bought it in 1982, cost me ÂŁ350, was a 1972 ford cortinia 1600GT bought from someone who worked at the ford tractor plant in basildon. Now its debt debt debt, the UKs interest on its national debt is ÂŁ67, billion, thats just the interest payments on the massive debt, twice the UKs total spending on defence? We are as a nation spending far more than we earn?
 

DaveGrohl

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Cumbria
In the 90s interest rates were in the mid teens, up to 17 at one point. We still borrowed money to develop our business. We've got so used to very low rates that raising 1/4% appears to be the end of the world. If a business model, or even a house purchase, depends on low interest rates, it's not a very safe model.
Sad thing is, you’re stating the bleeding obvious. But there are huge numbers of people to whom the bleeding obvious is an undicovered country. There are even some on here from what I’ve been reading in the last few days. I’m actually worried by some of the posts.
 

DaveGrohl

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Cumbria
The answer is simple stop taxing things ALL people/business's need /use on a daily basis like fuel ,food , alcohol and 20% vat on everything -alot of people might as well not bother getting up in the morning . How can people on ÂŁ9.50 an hour go and buy a pint at ÂŁ4.50 or fish and chips at ÂŁ11 ?
Start taxing where the money is -property/profit and remove exemptions reliefs etc. and end the obsession with house prices/ land values/high rents etc - the "opportunity cost " is destroying everything - do other countries have town centres full of charity shops ?
What is the point in asking people for money if they havent actually got any ?
Yes I know all the foreign money will go away-who cares ? , but you might be able afford somewhere to live though , your crops and stock might actually pay your mortgage and give you a salary .
What is point in putting/investing the nations working capital into some thing it already has bought and paid for generations ago ? -the recreation of a victorian economic values era perhaps ?

Nearly everything we buy on the farm is imported -things just cant be made/moved around
competitively here why ?
But such a policy wouldnt get you elected though as house prices are everything .
But they also say you cant buck the market -its going to be interesting soon .
So you’re gonna scrap VAT on everything? Do you realise how big a whole you’ve just created? And then you’re gonna tax a family farm, who are barely scraping by, with a land tax. How are they gonna pay that? It isn’t their fault the city are inflating land prices, it only actually becomes money when you sell up. So is that what you envisage/desire, everyone selling up?
 

nxy

Member
Mixed Farmer
The answer is simple stop taxing things ALL people/business's need /use on a daily basis like fuel ,food , alcohol and 20% vat on everything -alot of people might as well not bother getting up in the morning . How can people on ÂŁ9.50 an hour go and buy a pint at ÂŁ4.50 or fish and chips at ÂŁ11 ?
Start taxing where the money is -property/profit and remove exemptions reliefs etc. and end the obsession with house prices/ land values/high rents etc - the "opportunity cost " is destroying everything - do other countries have town centres full of charity shops ?
What is the point in asking people for money if they havent actually got any ?
Yes I know all the foreign money will go away-who cares ? , but you might be able afford somewhere to live though , your crops and stock might actually pay your mortgage and give you a salary .
What is point in putting/investing the nations working capital into some thing it already has bought and paid for generations ago ? -the recreation of a victorian economic values era perhaps ?

Nearly everything we buy on the farm is imported -things just cant be made/moved around
competitively here why ?
But such a policy wouldnt get you elected though as house prices are everything .
But they also say you cant buck the market -its going to be interesting soon .
Is there VAT on food now in the UK? Never used to be in the UK nor on lots of other things that we pay vat on in france (though food is at a lower rate than say booze)

Many countries charge a tax on farm land. Ours is about 20-30 euros a hectare per annum.

We also have a wealth tax on total assets worth more than 1.3 million euros. Its on a sliding scale and tops out above 10 million when you pay 1.5% on its value annually. Fortunately agricultural land is exempt.:)
 

le bon paysan

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Limousin, France
I guess the other side of the coin is these people are then taxed at effectively over 50% where as if the money stayed in the company it would be taxed at 19% or less on those profits, it’s bit like footballers massive pay quoted but by the time they pay over 50% tax the NI & then their agent takes probably a 10% cut what’s left doesn’t look quite so much, gross pay like gross profit is a bit misleading, it’s nett that you end up with that never looks so good!
The proper rich don't pay tax.
Daily Mail Trust and its owner Lord Rothermere are registered in Bermuda. Not a penny to the UK treasury. He lives in Bermuda and Monaco. Almost amusing when you read what the Mail thinks of anyone on benefits.
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
If household budgets are squeezed ÂŁ3,000, maybe up to ÂŁ5-6,000+ annually, then something has to give. Less cash to spend on things.

Now BoE start raising interest rates, so more mortgage pain.

Demand destruction. Factories on reduced hours = lower wages to pay the increasing living costs.

It's all energy price related. No reduction in energy prices will mean recession imho.

agree - they would be better to address / regulate energy prices than mess with interest rates to dig themselves out of this hole
 

le bon paysan

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Limousin, France
The land of opportunity that everybody wants to come too🤒
5. The UK is not disproportionately affected by the global refugee crisis, and neither is Europe
By the end of 2014, the global refugee population stood at 14.4 million people – if you discount the 5.1 million Palestinian refugees, who are generally left out of such figures because they are not within the remit of UNHCR, but rather a separate UN agency (the UN Relief and Works Agency).

Countries like Turkey and Pakistan host more refugees than all EU countries combined. Except for Turkey, no European country appeared among the top ten hosts of refugees at the end of 2014. Ethiopia, Kenya, Chad and Uganda were all on that list.

Within the EU, Sweden and Germany have consistently led the combined EU effort in receiving asylum claims and providing protection. France lags behind but for years has still received more than twice the number of asylum claims received by the UK.

Now Italy, Greece, Bulgaria and Hungary are among those far more affected than the UK.
 

digger64

Member
So you’re gonna scrap VAT on everything? Do you realise how big a whole you’ve just created? And then you’re gonna tax a family farm, who are barely scraping by, with a land tax. How are they gonna pay that? It isn’t their fault the city are inflating land prices, it only actually becomes money when you sell up. So is that what you envisage/desire, everyone selling up?
I didnt say that -but ask yourself why are they only scraping by whilst probably working very hard for the privelege ?
 
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Grass And Grain

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Yorks
agree - they would be better to address / regulate energy prices than mess with interest rates to dig themselves out of this hole
Recession will be very expensive in reduced tax receipts, unemployment benefits etc.

Guess it's a case of which is cheapest way out. Recession or address energy prices.
 

jendan

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Northumberland
In the 90s interest rates were in the mid teens, up to 17 at one point. We still borrowed money to develop our business. We've got so used to very low rates that raising 1/4% appears to be the end of the world. If a business model, or even a house purchase, depends on low interest rates, it's not a very safe model.
We borrowed from the AMC at 14% fixed to buy a small farm in 1974,and an overdraft for another half of the amount,It wasnt easy but doable. Variable costs were lower and produce sales were higher in real inflation adjusted terms.Thats the difference. All the work was done by David Brown 990s,which you could pick up a very decent 2nd hand one for ÂŁ700-ÂŁ800. Full time Labour,ÂŁ40-ÂŁ50/week,or ÂŁ2/hour self employed. Red diesel and electric cheap,and no Council Tax,although rates but most exempt.
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

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Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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