Red clover silage leys N fert

[beefandsleep]

I have grown pure stands of red clover in the past and have made some very good baled silage with zero N. As a result of that success I have put in some red clover ryegrass cutting leys that I intend to chop for the pit this year, in fact I plan to make all my silage from these new leys. As I have thrown all my eggs into one basket I obviously need these red clover leys to perform to their greatest potential. Should I be applying N this year? Or will I be just suppressing the N fixing of the clover? If I should be applying N then how much? Just for first cut or 2nd as well? I did read into this before reseeding and the seed companies claim 12+ tons dm/ha with zero N, what is the yield experience of those who have tried these leys? Should I expect lower first cuts due to low N fixation in the cooler spring but make up for that with a good second cut?

 

[Martyn]

Just give it a good feed with slurry if you can and the stay back and watch it grow!

 

[beefandsleep]

No slurry here. Plenty of fym and urea in the shed

 

[beefandsleep]

Cotswold seeds recommend 25kgN in the spring but I am mindful of a baling customers experience with Lucerne last year. He plastered some with slurry (well over 25kg N then) and some had none, yield was very similar but there was no or very little nodulation on the roots of the field that had slurry, loads on the other. Actual farm experience would be most helpful.

 

[Great In Grass]

25-30kg per hectare of N will get things moving along nicely before the clover starts to fix N, remember to maintain soil pH at 5.8 to 6 to get maximum production from the leys.

 

[beefandsleep]

And I’m guessing N as ammonium nitrate would be preferable to urea as by the time it is warm enough for the urea N to be available the plants are fixing it?

 

[milkloss]

And I’m guessing N as ammonium nitrate would be preferable to urea as by the time it is warm enough for the urea N to be available the plants are fixing it?

I agree with @Great In Grass with his recommendation. We grew one with lofa, citelac, magician(?) and three varieties rc. Gave it a potato growers grade of fert for a kick first year and that was it apart from some p and k from memory. Good cuts for three year and tried our luck for another but no joy really. Definitely needs plenty of lime to get going and persist but a fantastic crop for no N to speak of.

Like I’ve said before: docks took the shine off it for us.

 

[beefandsleep]

Docks were an issue for me with my previous RC experiments

 

[milkloss]

Docks were an issue for me with my previous RC experiments

How’d you get on top of the dock situation?

 

[Kevtherev]

Also don’t cut red clover leys too low [emoji106]

 

[cowboysupper]

25-30kg per hectare of N will get things moving along nicely before the clover starts to fix N, remember to maintain soil pH at 5.8 to 6 to get maximum production from the leys.

How much Potash do you recommend before first cut RC/rye grass ley? We’ve no slurry or FYM available unfortunately.

1st year growing a RC/rye grass ley and looking forward to seeing what it can do for us.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

It definitely doesn't hurt to give it a kick along early in the season before the soil temp gets up, how are your sulphur levels?
As Kev said - don't shave it because by pruning the taproot, it loses its competitive edge with continual grazing/mowings; really seems to prefer being left alone at least once every couple of years if you want the best performance and persistence.

 

[beefandsleep]

How’d you get on top of the dock situation?

Roundup then wheat[emoji6]
In retrospect it was a bad decision to put clover on that field.
At least I had that option.
End of the day it’s only there for three years max so they can’t get too bad, not like in a grazing ley when you have to sacrifice the clover to clean it up.

 

[Great In Grass]

How much Potash do you recommend before first cut RC/rye grass ley? We’ve no slurry or FYM available unfortunately.

1st year growing a RC/rye grass ley and looking forward to seeing what it can do for us.

You require an index of 2 the recommended rate is 100-150kg/ha of potash (80-120 units/acre potash) to achieve soil indices of 2. Bear in mind
For every tonne of DM removed, approximately 8kg of phosphate and 27kg of potash is removed, which needs replacing.

 

[milkloss]

You require an index of 2 the recommended rate is 100-150kg/ha of potash (80-120 units/acre potash) to achieve soil indices of 2. Bear in mind
For every tonne of DM removed, approximately 8kg of phosphate and 27kg of potash is removed, which needs replacing.

Stoopid question time! How do you calculate or predict the DM offtake?

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Stoopid question time! How do you calculate or predict the DM offtake?

It can be as simple or complex as you want to make it - you could run on estimates and measurements for each cut, or simply base it on taking say 80% of 12TDM per hectare.
Thats how I'd approach it anyway, which makes it much easier in a cutting/grazing situation - grazing largely leaves it behind, cut&carry removes the nutrients

 

[Great In Grass]

PDA offer a good guide: https://www.pda.org.uk/optimising-potash-use-cut-grassland/

 

[Great In Grass]

Stoopid question time! How do you calculate or predict the DM offtake?

A handy little calculator :
https://www.pda.org.uk/pda-app/#calculator-on-the-move

 

[cowboysupper]

Almost ready to cut our red clover/rye ley for the first time. Looking forward to seeing how it does.

I’m having difficulty finding someone with a mower with no conditioner or who is willing to go to the hassle of taking the conditioner out for a few hours.

I know it’s advised not to mow with a conditioner but what’s the likely outcome if we have to?

 

[milkloss]

Almost ready to cut our red clover/rye ley for the first time. Looking forward to seeing how it does.

I’m having difficulty finding someone with a mower with no conditioner or who is willing to go to the hassle of taking the conditioner out for a few hours.

I know it’s advised not to mow with a conditioner but what’s the likely outcome if we have to?

Never had a problem with our trailed jd moco. Only time I found RC fragile was when we got it too dry and needed to rake it, just smashes it all up. You’ll be fine whilst it’s fresh