Red diesel storage

steh

Member
Livestock Farmer
I don't know if this is still relevant, but I remember some of the smaller farms in the village that just had 250-gallon tanks and lasted most of the year.
The time of year was important if they top up, say for hay time then by winter they had to add some additives as the summer fuel would freeze up.
 

Farmer Roy

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
NSW, Newstralya
It would be an expensive day if you set off down the road in the UK with a car trailer and an ibc container full of red diesel on it. May get away with it if you throw a sheet over it so no police or ministry can see what it is. Would be ok if it was a proper fuel bowser meant for towing on the road bunded, and the such like. If we have the crusher or plant or the tractors working away from home which is often then we have a fueling service that we book and they turn up on site with a tanker every day and tank up everything it does not cost much more than we pay to fill the home tanks and its safer and easier.
Still see red pumps on the forecourts of fule stations on motorways and big haulage roads to top up the temp-controlled units on haulage transport.
I’ll admit the 1000l ex glypho shuttle is possibly a bit dodgy, but you can buy dedicated 1000 litre, or bigger, plastic diesel transfer tanks to go in a trailer or on the back of a truck that are perfectly legal.
Smaller ( 400 / 600 l ) models are very popular to go in the back of a Ute ( even our local Council does it to take fuel out to road works etc ), with farmers, contractors etc
 

Farmer Roy

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
NSW, Newstralya
PS - we don’t have “red” or “white”, it is just all diesel. The main difference is you can usually buy it a bit cheaper if you buy 20,0000 litres at a time bulk, rather than 200 l from a pump . .
 

steveR

Member
Mixed Farmer
Can't use cherry on fridge units in the UK since April & with plant kit banned as well I think that you'll see a big reduction in pumps serving red.

Anybody supplying red has to make reasonable efforts to ensure that it is being sold to persons with a legitimate reason for using rebated fuel, if HMRC decide that they've not done enough then the seller can be liable for the lost duty & VAT on all the red sold where the records are inadequate. Some retailers are prepared to take on the extra work or risk, for others it's not worth it.
This.
 

Netherfield

Member
Location
West Yorkshire
I use more petrol than that in the quad bike and am by no means a heavy user. I buy my petrol in 20 litre jerrycans and in fact I just bought 20 litres lunchtime today.

A local petrol station sells red from a pump and just the other day it was only a couple of pence more expensive per litre than with my combined order of 5500 litres. They are far more diligent raising the prices for their main consumer pumps.
We'd two in the area selling from a pump, one mainly because they were close to two large hire firms, saves them being broken in to frequently to steal from their tanks, now that red can't be used in that way I wonder how long it will last though.
 

Farmer Roy

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
NSW, Newstralya
It would be an expensive day if you set off down the road in the UK with a car trailer and an ibc container full of red diesel on it. May get away with it if you throw a sheet over it so no police or ministry can see what it is. Would be ok if it was a proper fuel bowser meant for towing on the road bunded, and the such like. If we have the crusher or plant or the tractors working away from home which is often then we have a fueling service that we book and they turn up on site with a tanker every day and tank up everything it does not cost much more than we pay to fill the home tanks and its safer and easier.
Still see red pumps on the forecourts of fule stations on motorways and big haulage roads to top up the temp-controlled units on haulage transport.

so, just a question

delivery trucks running up & down the motorways carrying diesel or petrol, 20 - 30,000 litres at a time - are they bunded ? I’m pretty sure ours aren’t ?
Yes, they are classed as “dangerous goods” & there are very specific license requirements & legislation involved . . .

as to getting fuel delivered, back when I was buying it in bulk, the fuel distributor I was buying from only delivered in this direction on Tuesday & Thursday, with a minimum delivery of 2000l
 

tomlad

Member
Location
nr. preston
That's other plan .
No harm having receipts tho either eh business expense
Lad onsite had a 1400 bunded but he's retiring, moving on....
Phone harrisons oil tomorrow, i didn't want to buy a drum and it go black bug
Cheers 🍻
 

Cowabunga

Member
Location
Ceredigion,Wales
afraid there are when selling to the public checks and records have to be made
That has been the case for a very long time.
The rules the petrol station was alluding to was probably the reduced legal use of red. My local garage has a lot of trucks refuelling and I suppose a proportion of those would have fridge units that used to run on red. However there are many people around these parts, including my brother in law, who have smallholdings or keep vintage tractors or stationary engines that run on diesel. My BIL has a Dexta and until a few days ago only had six acres, but now he has twelve. His Dexta would only use maybe 10 gallons/50 litres a year. Even if he used all DERV it would only cost him an extra £20 per year to run the tractor, so not the end of the world if the station stopped selling red.

I do know someone who runs a couple of mini-diggers, one of which is used mostly for digging graves [but used it to find a leaking mains water pipe here the other day] and he has no intension of changing from red to DERV. He doesn’t reckon that inspectors will be prowling around graveyards much.
 

steh

Member
Livestock Farmer
so, just a question

delivery trucks running up & down the motorways carrying diesel or petrol, 20 - 30,000 litres at a time - are they bunded ? I’m pretty sure ours aren’t ?
Yes, they are classed as “dangerous goods” & there are very specific license requirements & legislation involved . . .

as to getting fuel delivered, back when I was buying it in bulk, the fuel distributor I was buying from only delivered in this direction on Tuesday & Thursday, with a minimum delivery of 2000l
If I remember when I did my Transport Manager CPC course to get an operator license back in the 90s so things may have changed, don't have much to do with are haulage side now. But a towed fuel bowser has to be ADR / U.N certified and after 1000 liters the driver needs to have an ADR license browser should also be able to hold 110% of its contents. single skinned browsers are longer allowed to transport fuels on public roads.
You are only supposed to have 30 liters and just two containers for fuel containers in a vehicle.
Once you get into over 1000 liters you are supposed to have pressure tests and meet a standard to withstand an impact and have a residency on valves and covers so in a fire, roll-over, or accident it can meet a standard with no leaks. there a lot stronger than a bowser.
Refueling services just charge on what you use the same people that fill are big tanks at home do the fueling services. they have a 7'5 ton and some Hi lux with a tank where the tub should be oh and some transits just for fulling service use. Just fill each bit of plant up as they go round site then just give you the printout of each bit of plant and how much it's taken to fill once there done, no minimum order. Saves having a tank and getting the fuel stolen from every night we tend to refill in an AM if away from home so no plant has a full tank overnight.


CPC Transport Manager Course
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evdama

Member
Well whoever supplies these guys isn't aware of their attitude to legality.
It was early morning admittedly but I did think I was seeing double.
IMG_20220329_063145705.jpg
 

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