Red tractor audit

tullah

Member
Location
Linconshire
We already have a standard. RT doesn't provide a standard, it provides an illusion.

Its also a private company serving its own market
What's more the good old Non Farming Union and RT keep patting themselves on their backs for the success of this fraudulent monster that is costing farmers a fortune.
At least some of us see through it and the first priority of the newly formed
British Farming Union is going to be to kick corrupt RT out and represent British Farmers for an initial joining up fee of £10. Numbers will give the new union strength.
 

DrWazzock

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
RT is a general generic one shot per annum woolly business appraisal.
It’s not a load by load quality or safety check or sign off or quality mark. Customers don’t even understand that much. It’s nothing like a multi point inspection carried out on every vehicle before delivery for example. In my view RT doesn’t mean any particular load or animal is safe to eat. When I sign a grain passport I don’t even sign to confirm that the product has been produced in accordance with all applicable U.K. legislation. I just sign off a few choice things like compliance with sustainability directive. So I don’t think that RT in any way makes anybody accountable for product safety on a load by load or batch by batch basis.
So if Mrs Miggins finds a lump of glass in her bread and it’s traced back to me then there is no control point where I ever said that particular load is glass free or safe to eat. All I have is an audit that says in general terms I’ll try to keep glass out of the loads. And to me that’s a fundamental difference.
 

Gedd

Member
Livestock Farmer
RT is a general generic one shot per annum woolly business appraisal.
It’s not a load by load quality or safety check or sign off or quality mark. Customers don’t even understand that much. It’s nothing like a multi point inspection carried out on every vehicle before delivery for example. In my view RT doesn’t mean any particular load or animal is safe to eat. When I sign a grain passport I don’t even sign to confirm that the product has been produced in accordance with all applicable U.K. legislation. I just sign off a few choice things like compliance with sustainability directive. So I don’t think that RT in any way makes anybody accountable for product safety on a load by load or batch by batch basis.
So if Mrs Miggins finds a lump of glass in her bread and it’s traced back to me then there is no control point where I ever said that particular load is glass free or safe to eat. All I have is an audit that says in general terms I’ll try to keep glass out of the loads. And to me that’s a fundamental difference.
Its a dictatorship if you dont have the sticker there is a very limited market
 

Flat 10

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Fen Edge
Why on earth wouldnt you have a calibrated Moisture Meter?! Some serious money to be lost if its wrong!
Exactly. So why should RT check it? My risk, none of their business. Because after all it's only the merchant's sample that matters, whingeing "ah but my meter's calibrated, it has a certificate" gets you absolutely nowhere. Same as monitoring grain, its a serious expense if a few 100 or even 10 tonnes goes wrong so i check the store regularly (often just by feeling the temp of a metal rod with my hand that lives in the grain heap...) but why should i prat about doing temperature records (with my calibrated probe) far more frequently than is necessary just to make some clipboard warrior happy. after all, if my sample is below the moisture required on intake and free from bugs etc the temperature last week is hardly relevant. It is the biggest load of rubbish going. Especially as no one is doing the same to imported grain.
 

DrWazzock

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
Although I understand where you are coming from, surely all exams are just on the day.
Take A levels, how many retain the knowledge or just remember it for the exam etc
No. Most products sold are individually signed off. My combine harvester has a Declaration of Conformity that it meets EU Safety directives. The manufacturer isn’t even a member of a silly scheme. The technical managers signature is there on the Declaration that comes with the machine. There is no such declaration with each load of grain that leaves here, just my membership number of a silly scheme which means I make a bit of an effort on inspection day.
 

DrWazzock

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
And my opinion is that if I personally sign off each load as being safe and take full responsibility for that, then the systems I have in place and the way I go about keeping that product safe and in compliance with U.K. legislation is absolutely none of RT’s business.I am the control point to which customers can refer back. RT doesn’t even provide that on a load by load basis.
 
And my opinion is that if I personally sign off each load as being safe and take full responsibility for that, then the systems I have in place and the way I go about keeping that product safe and in compliance with U.K. legislation is absolutely none of RT’s business.I am the control point to which customers can refer back. RT doesn’t even provide that on a load by load basis.
So you record all your due diligence to prove it production standard to use in your defence if your product is found to be substandard and some one sues you for compensation
 

robbie

Member
BASIS
Why on earth wouldnt you have a calibrated Moisture Meter?! Some serious money to be lost if its wrong!

^^^^ Exactly

I fail to understand why a few think it good business to check against a neighbours meter, who has checked against his neighbours who had it checked in 1998. This has FA to do with RT, its about saving money.
Calibration costs £20.
While I agree it's a good idea to get meters checked properly, what the hell has it go to do with red tractor???
If a farmer wants to loose 10s of thousands of pounds by having grain spoil that's up to him and if this grain does enter the food chain it would be picked up at intake and rejected.
Why do red tractor need to see a certificate??? The only person it affects is the farmer himself, no one else.
 

DrWazzock

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
So you record all your due diligence to prove it production standard to use in your defence if your product is found to be substandard and some one sues you for compensation
Record all my due diligence? I use due diligence every moment of the day without needing to record it. I always check the grain bucket before every load, not on just one particular date but why should I need to record every incidence? When I drive my car I don’t record every time I look in the mirror just in case I have an accident. Looking in the mirror is part of the training just as checking the grain bucket before loading a load. When I was riveting new rubbers into my combine I made sure the rivet pull throughs we’re safely gathered up and accounted for. Which box do I tick? RT have a very simplistic primary school view on the way farms run.
 

Gedd

Member
Livestock Farmer
Record all my due diligence? I use due diligence every moment of the day without needing to record it. I always check the grain bucket before every load, not on just one particular date but why should I need to record every incidence? When I drive my car I don’t record every time I look in the mirror just in case I have an accident. Looking in the mirror is part of the training just as checking the grain bucket before loading a load. When I was riveting new rubbers into my combine I made sure the rivet pull throughs we’re safely gathered up and accounted for. Which box do I tick? RT have a very simplistic primary school view on the way farms run.
Agree its utter nonesense makes us into liars writing things down just to appease them how the human race has survived for milenia without this crap i dont know now is the time to drop it but we will all have to stand together
 

DrWazzock

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
The fact is, under RT if my sprayer goes out of MOT at Christmas then my loads I sent into CS in September can’t be sold as assured even though they were sprayed by the sprayer while it did have an MOT. That’s an incredibly stupid situation and unnecessary obstacle to my grain sales thanks to RT stupidity. What should happen is I sign off each load as done and dusted as it leaves the farm gate, which a truer reflection of those loads safety ststus.
Why can’t anybody grasp that?
 

DrWazzock

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
So you record all your due diligence to prove it production standard to use in your defence if your product is found to be substandard and some one sues you for compensation
Let’s imagine then somebody traced a dodgy load of wheat back to my farm. Lets say they found a piece of glass in it. Tell me in what way would my RT records provide me with any defence whatsoever? I keep samples off each load as required. I’ve had disputes with merchants over moisture readings. I can assure you that absolutely no notice was taken of my RT samples or records. When it comes to the crunch over a few quid a tonne moisture deduction my records were completely disregarded so does anybody believe they’d take any notice of them over a claim for loss of life or serious illness down the chain? Not a chance. Your records would be as much use as the paper they are written on. Practically worthless.
 

DrWazzock

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
I’ve even sampled a rejected load tipped back here with my own calibrated and tested moisture meter. Mine said 15%, the intake sampler said 17% and rejected it. Phoned them up and they laughed at me. So in my view any notion that RT provides us with any protection whatsoever is nonsense and a total waste of money.
 

Against_the_grain

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
S.E
Read my post #34 above. How has RT protected the grain safety with my loader wheels. It's a real on farm issue, and RT haven't got a single tick box for it.

It's salmonella spp. soup.
The fact that you are aware its an issue and shouldn't be doing it. It can't protect against people willing to break the law/codes of good conduct but it gives standards to adhere to.
 

Against_the_grain

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
S.E
I am assuming that all these moaning about having to adhere to a basic farm standard are the same ones who don't think they need to get their moisture meters tested.
 

Against_the_grain

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
S.E
RT is a general generic one shot per annum woolly business appraisal.
It’s not a load by load quality or safety check or sign off or quality mark. Customers don’t even understand that much. It’s nothing like a multi point inspection carried out on every vehicle before delivery for example. In my view RT doesn’t mean any particular load or animal is safe to eat. When I sign a grain passport I don’t even sign to confirm that the product has been produced in accordance with all applicable U.K. legislation. I just sign off a few choice things like compliance with sustainability directive. So I don’t think that RT in any way makes anybody accountable for product safety on a load by load or batch by batch basis.
Sorry are you saying you want a load by load audit?! A wooly annual inspection is a pretty good comorimise
 

Wombat

Member
BASIS
Location
East yorks
I am assuming that all these moaning about having to adhere to a basic farm standard are the same ones who don't think they need to get their moisture meters tested.
Mine goes straight to central store so my only moisture decision is how much drying charges am I prepared to pay before we start or stop combining so the moisture meter is a ball park number and to be honest I normally run a sample down to their meter anyway rather than bother with mine after a rain break as theirs is the only one that matters.
 

Grass And Grain

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Yorks
The fact that you are aware its an issue and shouldn't be doing it. It can't protect against people willing to break the law/codes of good conduct but it gives standards to adhere to.
Nothing's going to be perfect, and RT probably does keep some on their toes.

I'm quite happy buying my takeaway from somewhere which displays a decent food hygiene rating. The kebab shop passed its statutory food hygiene inspection, just as my farm has done so.

There's just a private company positioning itself between me and my buyer. I haven't noticed a kebab shop assurance scheme, we're happy the government inspector has done their job. There's no one at the market saying the non-assured sheep are a health risk. No-one saying the non-assured hay I sold to the RT beef farmer is unfit for feed.

But, if the purchaser wants assured, then we've to supply it. I've got an issue if the purchaser also has fingers in the assurance company!
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

  • 0 %

    Votes: 80 42.1%
  • Up to 25%

    Votes: 67 35.3%
  • 25-50%

    Votes: 30 15.8%
  • 50-75%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 75-100%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 100% I’ve had enough of farming!

    Votes: 7 3.7%

Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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