gone up the hill
Member
- Location
- Devon
Who appoints the RT qaungo's board members??
Red Tractor Beef lifetime Assurance.
- Thread starter gone up the hill
- Start date
Who appoints the RT qaungo's board members??
- Location
- East Sussex
If it quacks like a duck......
- Location
- North Somerset.
The history of Farmers losing control over their ability to obtain a fair price for their products shows that buyers will manipulate their pricing to suck farmers in. I understand that Goodman in Ireland did this and now all prime cattle go deadweight because the extra few pence he offered per kilo was enough for him to take enough trade away from the live weight sales to destroy them. Now he controls the price of beef because he has destroyed the competition for stock that the live markets provided.
The same applies to Red Tractor as manipulated by the Supermarkets. Having signed up to Farm Assurance, you have no say over what conditions are imposed on you by that scheme, you become a puppet dancing to their tune and you pay for the privelidge!
When Red Tractor, at the behest of their Supermarket masters, dictate that no assured animal can go through a market, the buyers have done away with the competition for our product that keeps our prices up.
The Supermarket business model is to dictate to their suppliers what they will pay for the product. In the livestock markets they have to compete for our product and they don't like that and they seek to control the supply chain through Red Tractor.
Anyone who believes different please feel free to explain to me how Farmers can have any infuence over what I believe will happen other than by refusing to give in to this FA blackmail.
This scheme has nothing to do with Food Safety and everything to do with market control.
Most farmers would not support any further government interference in their businesses which they would regard as the imposition of communism yet some will advocate signing up for FA because they see an extra few pence in the job.
Unless you are a one step thinker, you will see that the plan behind whole life farm assurance is control over the supply chain for the benefit of the buyers. The same as happened in the pig job..
@Simon Bainbridge I look forward to your explanation as to how what I predict cannot happen.
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- Location
- East Sussex
@topground i would guess @Simon Bainbridge would be a direct seller so your argument may well be falling on deaf ears
matthew
Member
- Location
- Cornwall, SW England
Is this the lad?
http://www.fwi.co.uk/livestock/2014-farmers-weekly-beef-farmer-finalists-revealed.htm
If so, direct seller to Waitrose and vice chairman of NFU Livestock committee, which held the hand of RT at the inception of this scheme last year.
Apologies if the wrong Simon Bainbridge.
matthew
Member
- Location
- Cornwall, SW England
If my memory serves me correctly, when the Tesco fan club schemes were launched, they wanted to see farm accounts (to 'help' reduce inputs) and for milk, to average out input costs.
This was the first step to vertical integration of the supply chain.
As @topground says, Larry Goodman openly boasted he 'bought' the Irish meat supply chain for Xp/kg. And in effect destroyed competition.
And anyone who thinks that extra costs of all this could be passed to the consumer - dream on. We pay them all; the costs of production be that farm, abattoir or retailer are only passed one way.
They call it gravity' accounting.
This was the first step to vertical integration of the supply chain.
As @topground says, Larry Goodman openly boasted he 'bought' the Irish meat supply chain for Xp/kg. And in effect destroyed competition.
And anyone who thinks that extra costs of all this could be passed to the consumer - dream on. We pay them all; the costs of production be that farm, abattoir or retailer are only passed one way.
They call it gravity' accounting.
gone up the hill
Member
- Location
- Devon
Is this the lad?
http://www.fwi.co.uk/livestock/2014-farmers-weekly-beef-farmer-finalists-revealed.htm
If so, direct seller to Waitrose and vice chairman of NFU Livestock committee, which held the hand of RT at the inception of this scheme last year.
Apologies if the wrong Simon Bainbridge.
So yet another senior NFU Bod who is totally ignoring the majority of the NFU's members views on a subject and doing what is best for their own business intrests and not the members they claim to represent !!............
Clearly if he has a waitrose contract then he has a vested intrest in pushing for more farm assurance red tape/ WLA etc...
caveman
Member
- Location
- East Sussex.
You mean. They think they are doing the best for their own businessess?
Misguided fools.
They are, however, in the lead in the race to the bottom.
gone up the hill
Member
- Location
- Devon
Yea that's what I mean
and in doing so destroy the rest of the industry in the process...............................................
Many cows and sheep, selling direct ?
plenty of acres ? plenty of cattle ? plenty of money ? RT was made for him ?
Anyway not much good to argue the big boys seem to get there way with NFU support
Someone else said there was more support for it in the north
Anyway Steve you just as well shut your mouth and follow the rest of the sheep to this new utopia where all is milk and honey
farmers with direct contracts all right "jack" till there is nothing left to set the price for Beef or lamb apart from what the supermarket will pay
I will have to join I know I will first sign up to the register but that only lasts a year or two then they turn the screw
If RT would sign to say that what you sign up to wouldn't change for 20 years I wouldn't be so worried about it
But I will have to join as a small producer of weaned calves and looking for the top end of the store market to make my few cows pay
And knowing that most of the farmers that buy our cattle belong to RT can someone tell me how I will have any other choice but to be blackmailed into joining this monopoly.
Steevo
Member
- Location
- Gloucestershire
buffalo_soldier
Member
- Location
- cumbria
Ok I know im North West but my experience in the marts, and farmers etc. is just about the polar opposite of what @Simon Bainbridge is describing.
.Not everyone is farming 650Ha Simon.
spin cycle
Member
- Location
- north norfolk
i'm glad simon bambridge has come on here to put the other side of the debate....personally if i could get convincing answers to my own questions i'd happily 'come round'...but sadly those answers don't seem to exist
....personally if i could get convincing answers to my own questions i'd happily 'come round'...but sadly those answers don't seem to existI agree entirely with buffalo soldier.The one local beef farmer of scale I know (he sells 3800 head of prime cattle and 2500 prime lambs a year) is very much against WLA.He buys mostly strong stores in the auctions and sends direct to the abattoir and says the current proposals must affect his profits.He is a enthusiastic NFU supporter but is now talking of not renewing his NFU membership if the current proposals become RT standards.He believes EID is the way forward having installed it on his farm and experienced a significant reduction in paperwork and management time.Ok I know im North West but my experience in the marts, and farmers etc. is just about the polar opposite of what @Simon Bainbridge is describing.
Not everyone is farming 650Ha Simon.
I too have informed the NFU if they do not get a grip on RT my NFU membership will not be renewed. Afterall as a NFU member I am part owner of RT or so I am informed and therefore I am entitled to express my views and if the current proposals are taken up then I must accept that the NFU no longer is prepared to represent the views of the majority of its livestock members.
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Simon Bainbridge
New Member
Afternoon All,I have now finished feeding and bedding cattle and sheep for the day.
From some of the posts it seems I am not allowed a view on the farming forum but I shall have one last post if that is OK
No I do not sit on RT board,but represent N'Lands livestock farmers on the NFU regional livestock board. We have had a number of meetings in the north of England where the support for whole life assurance has been between 90-100% in favour of WLA. These figures correspond exactly to the levels of farm assured stock going thru our auction marts both store and fat. In the early days of farm assurance our local marts very much encouraged us to join and even helped with the paper work.
Two examples of WLA in practice are the West Country beef and lamb PGI where all stock has to be born,reared and finished on assured farms in the West Country for all of its life and in Scotland where it has being going on for over 10 yrs and where an example was given recently of a beast that had been grazing in Cumbria and was picked as not qualifying for their scheme,so there are systems out there that work. I believe the West Country database is being supported by funding from beef SW and the NBA.
Just to clarify 90% of all cattle killed at point of slaughter are farm assured,so there is a proven demand for FA cattle and a proven will to supply.
On promotion you just need to go thru doors of Aldi,Lidl or Waitrose to see the use of red tractor on British Beef. AHDB have limited resources and are limited by state aid rules to get heavily involved in promotion,but I am not the one to talk to about that.
Caveman,world oil price I believe is supply and demand driven,but if price drops then fuel duty will drop in line,based on a percentage rather than a set amount. Not quite sure how we got onto oil, I would imagine there is bound to be some world wide politics mixed in there too!
It is absolutely the roll of the NFU to represent its members across All regions and sectors...I highlight ALL. I would imagine it is not an easy job at times! Look at difference between SW and NE on this particular issue. Northumberland coldest county in England and Cornwall probably the warmest,there are many challenges/differences out there.
Finally I would just like to say that it is ultimately the farmers choice whether he/she is farm assured or not. You have given some valid reasons as to why you do not want to be FA and some have said they can get as much for there stock else where, the choice is yours.
Good to discuss this with you all,you have given me food for thought.
Steevo
Member
- Location
- Gloucestershire
Speaking as an assured 100% cereal farmer I'm becoming disillusioned with RT. I certainly wouldn't fancy having cattle here with or without RT, but feel RT is going too far these days. It's not truly voluntary. It does not provide a premium. It is not of any value to farmer or customer.
spin cycle
Member
- Location
- north norfolk
shame simon didn't stay long enough to answer my questions...i'll just have to keep on asking i guess
edit ...you wern't alone about being out with the stock this morning..i was untangling triplets
...i'll just have to keep on asking i guessedit ...you wern't alone about being out with the stock this morning..i was untangling triplets
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Everyone can have a view on TFF, good job we don't all agree all the time or it would be a bit boring
Always nice to try to see the other persons point of view though when talking about there business and future
The choice is not mine as to if I join or not if I want to carry on selling my 10 month old store cattle to the farmers that buy them, they have no requirement for me to have RT at the moment and there will be no price premium for me if I did join over what I get now, as I will be selling the same cattle to the same people
buffalo_soldier
Member
- Location
- cumbria
Is there less accountability on twitter or something?
You pull in an NFU bod, he spouts the company line, inevitably he is asked questions and you get this:
You pull in an NFU bod, he spouts the company line, inevitably he is asked questions and you get this: