Red Tractor - Mass Cancellation

[Grass And Grain]

The higher price premium customer for us farmers is the independent butcher.

If they buy nothing but Red Tractor beef, then that might tell us that RT is in demand. If they don't sell RT meat, then that might suggest that RT isn't really required.

Three butchers in my local town. I'll check them out when next in town.

 

[Whynot]

Before I start I’d like to admit that my wife works as an inspector!
I also have my annual Crops inspection in a couple of hours. We’re an ex dairy and potato farmer so I feel quite well qualified to discuss RT.

I’d rather not have any schemes to be part of, but I think we need to discuss the alternatives. At the moment we are inspected by people from within the industry(Agronomist’s,ex farmers etc), in most cases with a fairly light touch.

I hate the fact that we seem to have “something new” to do each year, but these are often in response to industry concerns or supplier demands.

The alternative is to be part of commercial non agricultural specific schemes with inspectors from other industries.

We also run an AD plant and have an insight into non farming assurance and H&S. Me and my brother had to do a generic waste handling qualification which cost £6k and most of it was of no use to our small farm based plant.

In the end we are producing food and will all probably admit we need something but I think we need to campaign for as little bull**** paperwork as possible. Apart from doing a bit of “last minute” annual fudging of the file in the corner of the office most of it should already being done(crop recs etc).

The alternative might be worse, spot inspections by non farming jobsworths...............

 

[icanshootwell]

Checking your collection tickets is just a lazy way of checking that your complying with the legal minimum temps required. Assuming you're on every other day collection your milk should be at 6 degrees ASAP, not just at point of collection. So this requirement is a check that you meet the LEGAL MINIMUM standards. It couldn't possibly be removed from any audit worth having.

You're also required by law to maintain your milk storage facilities to ensure nothing's wrong that could possibly contaminate your milk. So RT need proof of this. They require proof of an annual check by a professional. Calibration of temp gauges and checks of refrigeration systems can only be done by professionals. Again, I'd suggest this is a minimum standard that must be checked for by any quality scheme worthy of the name.

Your point seems to be that your milk collector would soon spot any faults. Maybe they would, maybe they wouldn't. But it's you who's being inspected, not them. If trading standards turn up and find your milk is too warm, blaming the collector won't get you very far IMO.

Why can,t the milk buyer have there own chap that inspects the milk they are buying?
Same for me, I sell beef to ABP, why can,t they have a chap that inspects farms that sell to them, it would cut out the middle men profiteering from farmers.

 

[Grass And Grain]

Before I start I’d like to admit that my wife works as an inspector!
I also have my annual Crops inspection in a couple of hours. We’re an ex dairy and potato farmer so I feel quite well qualified to discuss RT.

I’d rather not have any schemes to be part of, but I think we need to discuss the alternatives. At the moment we are inspected by people from within the industry(Agronomist’s,ex farmers etc), in most cases with a fairly light touch.

I hate the fact that we seem to have “something new” to do each year, but these are often in response to industry concerns or supplier demands.

The alternative is to be part of commercial non agricultural specific schemes with inspectors from other industries.

We also run an AD plant and have an insight into non farming assurance and H&S. Me and my brother had to do a generic waste handling qualification which cost £6k and most of it was of no use to our small farm based plant.

In the end we are producing food and will all probably admit we need something but I think we need to campaign for as little bull**** paperwork as possible. Apart from doing a bit of “last minute” annual fudging of the file in the corner of the office most of it should already being done(crop recs etc).

The alternative might be worse, spot inspections by non farming jobsworths...............

Changing farm assurance from the inside does seem to be a 'first step' logical approach.

How do we do this as farmers? I emailed them once about one of their rules, and felt that they didn't listen to what i said but rather just defended their position.

Do we contact one of the farmer board members? E.g. Andrew Blenkiron for cereals.

Just changing the crop sprayer testing requirement from annually to the legal requirement of every 5??? Years would help a small cereal farmer like myself. As far as i know, pesticide granule applicators is a 5 year test requirement for RT (as per the law).

In some ways, the inspection body fee is one of the most expensive elements. Had our bill recently, which was about £220 plus VAT. That included £20 royalty to RT, so about £200 for the inspection body. What do the inspectors get per visit?

Is there an opening for a farmer owned inspection body, non-profit, hence reducing our costs.

 

[czechmate]

Come to france if you want to see beauracracy at it's finest , we're playing at paper pushing in comparison .

I find the opposite but what would I know.

 

[kmo]

Why can,t the milk buyer have there own chap that inspects the milk they are buying?
Same for me, I sell beef to ABP, why can,t they have a chap that inspects farms that sell to them, it would cut out the middle men profiteering from farmers.

Kepak/St Merryn have additional farm assurance requirements for meat going on to Tesco's and M&S.
The farm assurance auditor does those extra checks at the same time as the red tractor ones.
I assume Kepak/St Merryn pay them a fee for this.

 

[ploughman1963]

Careful what you wish for. Some folk have been known to have visits from inspectors, to audit the auditors that have already been.....

I know of one farm where they tried doing that and the owner told them straight that he had passed inspection, if they wanted to do a second visit, he would be charging them for his farm managers time for the replicated visit - they went elsewhere to do the audit!

 

[bobk]

I find the opposite but what would I know.

Are you label rouge ?

 

[milkloss]

I know of one farm where they tried doing that and the owner told them straight that he had passed inspection, if they wanted to do a second visit, he would be charging them for his farm managers time for the replicated visit - they went elsewhere to do the audit!

When we were members we had pretty much the same. A chap turned up after a rather awkward young lady had done the inspection and wanted to go through the whole rigamarole againto which I said no. I walked him round the cattle and that was as far as I was going to go as an offering. He didn’t like it but I was pleasant and he went on his way without too much huffing.

 

[ollie989898]

If a buyer wants specific assurance and is willing to setup, implement and also pay people a premium to comply with it then I have no complaint with that. But generic mandatory assurance by no name quangos or made up organisations that confer no competitive advantage is a sham and we all know of hell hole farms that never seem to get eliminated by red tractor.

 

[Formatted]

Do you think steel manufacturers complain about having to produce steal with a CE mark? RT isn't for the farmer, its for the supply chain and if you want to sell into that supply change you need assured to their standard. If you don't want to, then no one is forcing you to.

 

[ollie989898]

Do you think steel manufacturers complain about having to produce steal with a CE mark? RT isn't for the farmer, its for the supply chain and if you want to sell into that supply change you need assured to their standard. If you don't want to, then no one is forcing you to.

Steel manufacturers can choose who they sell to and to what standard. There is no obligation or levy on every tonne sold. The ag industry by contrast has a myriad of schemes which mean nothing to the consumer largely.

 

[tullah]

I'd question why my grain that goes to a feed mill MUST be farm assured for them to be allowed to include it in their feed, but the GM soya from South America can be added to their feed with no farm assurance paperwork at all.

Can you give me the answer as to why this is OK?

I really don't expect you will receive a satisfactory answer to your question. Yet we all blindly go along with this.

 

[czechmate]

Are you label rouge ?

Oui.

 

[Farmer_Joe]

i gave up with it 2 years ago, its a load of turd

 

[Clive]

Do you think steel manufacturers complain about having to produce steal with a CE mark? RT isn't for the farmer, its for the supply chain and if you want to sell into that supply change you need assured to their standard. If you don't want to, then no one is forcing you to.

CE is a self certification scheme - means bugger all from what Im told - you don't have to pay to be in it and men with clipboards don't come around inspecting you.


I would be more than happy to just mark my product RT compliant after self certification and without need for paying them and making their inspectors coffee every year !

 

[Formatted]

CE is a self certification scheme - means bugger all from what Im told - you don't have to pay to be in it and men with clipboards don't come around inspecting you.


I would be more than happy to just mark my product RT compliant after self certification and without need for paying them and making their inspectors coffee every year !

How about cars? If you sell a car in the EU you NCAP safety rating. Independently assessed.

 

[milkloss]

How about cars? If you sell a car in the EU you NCAP safety rating. Independently assessed.

Comparing this sort of thing to a one man band slogging around in the sh1t and snow during lambing? It’s a totally different kettle of fish to a business with a h&s and compliance officer behind a desk.

I edited this post as I misread an earlier post so apologies if the first version got read.

 

[Clive]

How about cars? If you sell a car in the EU you NCAP safety rating. Independently assessed.

NCAP stops ANYONE selling a car in the EU thats doesnt met the standard (level playing field) RT does not stop lower standard food being imported and sold in the UK .................. if it did I would support it 100% and it would be a genius idea !

Not being in RT does not mean that suddenly UK produce can be grown however we want, there are plenty of standards and laws in place already higher than many parts of the world that we happily import food from

 

[Formatted]

NCAP stops ANYONE selling a car in the EU thats doesnt met the standard (level playing field) RT does not stop lower standard food being imported and sold in the UK .................. if it did I would support it 100% and it would be a genius idea !

Yep that is a fair point