Red Tractor non conformance

texelburger

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Herefordshire

eight key principles for developing standards​

The eight key principles set out by the NFU are:

  • Continue to retain trust and support growth in the domestic market for British food.
  • Provide an assurance platform for growth in the export market for British food and ensure high value exports have robust assurance supporting traceability claims.
  • Retain its leading position on cost effective assurance and protect members from inspection and regulatory duplication. Any additional costs associated with implementing new standards should be supported with a clear and simple cost benefit analysis or business case.
  • Be empowered to challenge duplicity within the marketplace and not facilitate the hypocrisy of buyers sourcing policies which undermines domestic standards.
  • Seek to add value through segmentation and market differentiation where there is a need to deliver different value propositions to different markets, without inflating the core standard and eroding value to scheme members.
  • Provide marketing choice for buyers. Scheme options, or bolt‑ons, could provide competition for cost‑effective or a more practicable alternative for brands and scheme members alike.
  • Provide a viable but discretionary alternative to new or increasing regulatory burdens and it should deliver efficient solutions in areas that are susceptible to regulatory burdens.
  • Explore the opportunities for inspections to be driven by outcomes and data, and where possible reduce the burden of inspection and add value back to farmers.
Is it me being an old fart but what a load of waffle.Think I could of used a fraction of the words used to say the same thing in layman's terms.
 

texelburger

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Herefordshire
Yes, over the coming years folks will be actively seeking the cheapest food they can get their hands on, rather than looking out for a pointless RT sticker. RT has to go, it's a cost/ burden we can not afford.
I've looked 3 times in the wife's supermarket shop and the only RT label was on frozen chips,nothing else at all.Nobody cares about RT.It's a total con.Thank you NFU and AHDB and AIC for forcing this unnecessary burden on us farmers whilst welcoming with open arms unassured imported food into the UK.You should all be thoroughly ashamed of yourselves.
I will be telling,very vociferously, every NFU/AHDB representative I meet about this sham.
 

Drillman

Member
Mixed Farmer
I wouldn't say waffle. It's a pack of lies.

They actively work against most of these stated "aims".
The thing is from an assurance point of view unless they start working with farmers to help improve on farm profitability instead of bf eating us with a stick we will keep looking at ways of doing without them, effectively weakening there position.
 

MrNoo

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Cirencester
The thing is from an assurance point of view unless they start working with farmers to help improve on farm profitability instead of bf eating us with a stick we will keep looking at ways of doing without them, effectively weakening there position.
They bring nothing to the party, ZERO benefit be it monetary or any other.
Just a parasite ably supported by the NFU
 
Ands that’s the thing, does anyone avoid another countries products because of it? Am I going to avoid Canadian wheat or whatever as I saw someone taping up grain bags that have been outside for 5 months
? no and most people would either, I was watching them load a ship on wheat on the news the other day as part of this crisis and the bloody ship must have had 5,000 pidgins in the hold as they were load it. Does anyone give a feck if you asked them, not at all

when I travel (and hopefully get back to it shortly) will I say not going to eat for the next 3 weeks as the foods not RT approved?

Very common to store grain outside in countries for periods of time. How does one secure this against wildlife eating it? You can't.
 

Jackov Altraids

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Devon
Is it me being an old fart but what a load of waffle.Think I could of used a fraction of the words used to say the same thing in layman's terms.

I'm sure you could.
That would make the fact they are good principles even clearer.
It would also make it clear that RT fails to meet the NFU's requirements yet they still back it unreservedly.

I'll have a go;

1, Put a union jack on British food.

Yes indeed, this doesn't require assurance.

2, Help exports

The chairman of RT admits that exports do not require RT.

3, RT to maintain it's monopoly, and try to justify it's expense.

No comment required

4, Lets ignore the fact that suppliers use unassured imports.

No comment required again

5, Try to achieve a premium for meeting standards.

Fail

6, Provide marketing choices.

🤣 :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

7, RT to try and get an income from adding and checking other peoples rules.

:mad:

8, Move inspections online as much as possible so the assurance scheme can make more money.
 

Grass And Grain

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Yorks
So, if we farmers were to collectively do something about RT, what would people suggest? I think we're getting pushed towards this sort of action.

  1. I'm thinking a rival scheme owned by ourselves, we all jump ship, then RT is dead in the water?
  2. Get everyone together and all leave at the same time?
  3. Get everyone together and tell RT what we want, otherwise we're starting our own scheme (or leaving)?
  4. Any other suggestions?
It's easier to do the above with cereals first off, then after learning how we've gone on, look at how to tackle the livestock sectors.
 

Humble Village Farmer

Member
BASE UK Member
Location
Essex
So, if we farmers were to collectively do something about RT, what would people suggest? I think we're getting pushed towards this sort of action.

  1. I'm thinking a rival scheme owned by ourselves, we all jump ship, then RT is dead in the water?
  2. Get everyone together and all leave at the same time?
  3. Get everyone together and tell RT what we want, otherwise we're starting our own scheme (or leaving)?
  4. Any other suggestions?
It's easier to do the above with cereals first off, then after learning how we've gone on, look at how to tackle the livestock sectors.
It's easy to get bogged down with the dead tractor when really it's the buyers who insist on it but don't pay for the "added value" who are the problem.

They will fight to the bitter end to hold onto this freeby. Plus they are all mates and will give each other nice little non exec directorships ad infinitum as a reward for keeping the gravy flowing.

They are breaking the law of course by applying different trading conditions to similar goods, and this is where the Bfu could apply some pressure by taking one of them to court. The next question is, if they lose, will there be thousands of backdated claims like they did to the banks?

Dead tractor will be able to hide behind the fact that it's voluntary and they are just providing a service.
 
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So, if we farmers were to collectively do something about RT, what would people suggest? I think we're getting pushed towards this sort of action.

  1. I'm thinking a rival scheme owned by ourselves, we all jump ship, then RT is dead in the water?
  2. Get everyone together and all leave at the same time?
  3. Get everyone together and tell RT what we want, otherwise we're starting our own scheme (or leaving)?
  4. Any other suggestions?
It's easier to do the above with cereals first off, then after learning how we've gone on, look at how to tackle the livestock sectors.

How do you leave RT at the same time? Its payments are staggered?
 

Grass And Grain

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Yorks
How do you leave RT at the same time? Its payments are staggered?
Yes they are. And we might all have sold some forward, with the merchant expecting us to be assured.

That's why I posed the question, and was aware of the staggered renewal dates. Does that leave one option being a new farmer owned scheme, everyone join new scheme, then only assured grain is available from the new scheme. Then the farmers are much more in control of the grain, the scheme and the standards.

I'd like to think we could be assured (new scheme), but only offer a signed off warrant of conformity if buyer was willing to pay a premium. Otherwise they only get offered non-warranted. Not sure how that would or could work.

We see software companies offering Basic level or Premium level, we see Trimble offering Egnos or pay to unlock TRK. The Trimble hardware is quite capable of doing either, but you only get the bells and whistles if you cough up some extra cash. Can we do simar with grain?
 

Drillman

Member
Mixed Farmer
So, if we farmers were to collectively do something about RT, what would people suggest? I think we're getting pushed towards this sort of action.

  1. I'm thinking a rival scheme owned by ourselves, we all jump ship, then RT is dead in the water?
  2. Get everyone together and all leave at the same time?
  3. Get everyone together and tell RT what we want, otherwise we're starting our own scheme (or leaving)?
  4. Any other suggestions?
It's easier to do the above with cereals first off, then after learning how we've gone on, look at how to tackle the livestock sectors.
Beef and sheep through livestock markets there is no point in rt assured as no premium anuwy so that’s already dead in the water.

i would think option 3 then they can’t complain when we end up using option 1 when (not if) they fail us.
 

Jackov Altraids

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Devon
Safety is paramount. Anything that prevents accidents on farm has to be a priority

A green tractor for organic has been mentioned.
That is completely unnecessary.

Safety is very important, but should only be addressed by an assurance scheme where it directly relates to the safety of food.

I think RT is similar to Bitcoin.

Bitcoin is an asset that pretends to be a currency
RT is a regulatory body that pretends to be assurance

In both cases, the people making money from it are happy
Those using it don't really care about any details
The vast majority live in blissful ignorance of it.

In both cases they could fold when it is finally understood they have no real material value.
 

texelburger

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Herefordshire
Very common to store grain outside in countries for periods of time. How does one secure this against wildlife eating it? You can't.
A neighbours son lives in Canada and works for a large mill.Several years ago he told his brother there was Canadian hard wheat sat outside in the docks and its destination was the UK.He said it was crusted on the outside and the rats had burrowed in.No doubt this was acceptable by RT and the NFU and doesn’t need to be assured.
 

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Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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