Red Tractor

[Jackov Altraids]

Something that I don't think has been mentioned with regard to RT is how it is driving the industrialisation of farming in the UK.
I will leave the argument as to whether that is a good or bad thing but I think most would agree that it is contrary to the rustic image that most consumers want and that the adverts sell.
I believe it will also be eventually shown to have a serious impact on nature when requirements are that it needs to effectively removed from food production.

 

[kiwi pom]

So what do you make of that @kiwi pom ? I know you think we are moaning for no reason. The above is the reason.

I don't think you're moaning for no reason, Its all a load of bo**ocks, I just don't see you being able to do much about it. If anything its going to get worse as retailers and processors all fall over themselves to come up with a new point of difference to the competition. Without actually owning more of the supply chain, you're always going to be at the mercy of your buyers. Even if you do own it, there's more hoops to jump through every year, because governments can't leave farmers alone.

I don't know what the answer is, the guys I talk to hate RT as well but say its not that big of a deal to do, dairy being by far the worst.

 

[Jackov Altraids]

I don't think you're moaning for no reason, Its all a load of bo**ocks, . If anything its going to get worse as retailers and processors all fall over themselves to come up with a new point of difference to the competition. Without actually owning more of the supply chain, you're always going to be at the mercy of your buyers. Even if you do own it, there's more hoops to jump through every year, because governments can't leave farmers alone.

I don't know what the answer is, the guys I talk to hate RT as well but say its not that big of a deal to do, dairy being by far the worst.

"its not that big of a deal to do"
"its going to get worse"
"Its all a load of bo**ocks"
"I just don't see you being able to do much about it"

Well I think @Drillman is on the money with his opening post, we need an alternative.
If only we had a union of farmers to help set something up!

 

[kiwi pom]

"its not that big of a deal to do"
"its going to get worse"
"Its all a load of bo**ocks"
"I just don't see you being able to do much about it"

Well I think @Drillman is on the money with his opening post, we need an alternative.
If only we had a union of farmers to help set something up!

How different would an alternative be though?
It might start out good, but you know how that goes.

 

[Tarw Coch]

I don't think you're moaning for no reason, Its all a load of bo**ocks, I just don't see you being able to do much about it. If anything its going to get worse as retailers and processors all fall over themselves to come up with a new point of difference to the competition. Without actually owning more of the supply chain, you're always going to be at the mercy of your buyers. Even if you do own it, there's more hoops to jump through every year, because governments can't leave farmers alone.

I don't know what the answer is, the guys I talk to hate RT as well but say its not that big of a deal to do, dairy being by far the worst.

A reluctant like for that, I think you’ve hit the nail on the head

 

[Jackov Altraids]

How different would an alternative be though?
It might start out good, but you know how that goes.

Who knows.
But I guess it is like having liveweight and deadweight, it is best to have a choice!

UK ag has to get rid of RT [in its current form] or find an alternative.
It could get rid of RT if the livestock markets refused to declare assurance status.
It could set up a self-cert alternative.

Or it can lie down and slowly die.

 

[Grass And Grain]

@Jackov Altraids I was speaking to a livestock auctioneer recently. He was talking about the control there is over deadweight pigs and hardly any fat pigs in markets. This vs a reasonable amount of cattle and sheep through live markets, and the reasonably decent beef and lamb prices over past few years.

Am I correct in saying RT pigs can't keep RT status if sold for slaughter through a market? Given that BRC are on RT boards, it makes you think about why the RT rules get tighter, and whom may benefit from some of these rules.

 

[Flat 10]

How different would an alternative be though?
It might start out good, but you know how that goes.

It would just be produced to U.K. legal standards nothing more than that

 

[Barleymow]

@Jackov Altraids I was speaking to a livestock auctioneer recently. He was talking about the control there is over deadweight pigs and hardly any fat pigs in markets. This vs a reasonable amount of cattle and sheep through live markets, and the reasonably decent beef and lamb prices over past few years.

Am I correct in saying RT pigs can't keep RT status if sold for slaughter through a market? Given that BRC are on RT boards, it makes you think about why the RT rules get tighter, and whom may benefit from some of these rules.

They don't worry that they have been fed on gm imported soya though

 

[SilliamWhale]

I don't think you're moaning for no reason, Its all a load of bo**ocks, I just don't see you being able to do much about it. If anything its going to get worse as retailers and processors all fall over themselves to come up with a new point of difference to the competition. Without actually owning more of the supply chain, you're always going to be at the mercy of your buyers. Even if you do own it, there's more hoops to jump through every year, because governments can't leave farmers alone.

I don't know what the answer is, the guys I talk to hate RT as well but say its not that big of a deal to do, dairy being by far the worst.

I think you are underestimating how much people dislike hypocrisy and lies. We've just seen a health minister resign not for an affair but the hypocrisy around it. So I think for you to say "I don't think you can do anything about it" is very self defeatist - I wouldn't want you in the trenches!!

 

[Jackov Altraids]

@Jackov Altraids I was speaking to a livestock auctioneer recently. He was talking about the control there is over deadweight pigs and hardly any fat pigs in markets. This vs a reasonable amount of cattle and sheep through live markets, and the reasonably decent beef and lamb prices over past few years.

Am I correct in saying RT pigs can't keep RT status if sold for slaughter through a market? Given that BRC are on RT boards, it makes you think about why the RT rules get tighter, and whom may benefit from some of these rules.

I'm afraid I don't know anything about pigs but I think 'vertical integration' removed any viable liveweight sales.

 

[7610 super q]

Do we actually need an assurance scheme at all ?
We've been growing food happily for 4000 years.
A fair percentage of farmers are non assured ATM, and presumably find markets for their produce in the UK. Probably the same markets in reality.

 

[SilliamWhale]

Do we actually need an assurance scheme at all ?
We've been growing food happily for 4000 years.
A fair percentage of farmers are non assured ATM, and presumably find markets for their produce in the UK. Probably the same markets in reality.

No. We have regulation to help guide us on best practice of what is important.

 

[Grass And Grain]

View attachment 970243

I'm afraid I don't know anything about pigs but I think 'vertical integration' removed any viable liveweight sales.

Ah, I was incorrect.

Quite arbitrary though, when a farmer cannot also keep non-assured. Sort of gives RT a monopoly on pig sales and stops non-assured.

Also of note, haulier and livestock mart must be RT accredited. No other choice of accreditation scheme allowed.

 

[Jackov Altraids]

Ah, I was incorrect.

Quite arbitrary though, when a farmer cannot also keep non-assured. Sort of gives RT a monopoly on pig sales and stops non-assured.

Also of note, haulier and livestock mart must be RT accredited. No other choice of accreditation scheme allowed.

The position of Red Tractor is basically summed up by its focus on compulsion and not a premium. It is an extortion racket.

 

[Batty]

Ah, I was incorrect.

Quite arbitrary though, when a farmer cannot also keep non-assured. Sort of gives RT a monopoly on pig sales and stops non-assured.

Also of note, haulier and livestock mart must be RT accredited. No other choice of accreditation scheme allowed.

All breeding stock and AI purchases must be from RT assured farms and studs as well.
Believe they claim 96 percent of pigs produced to RT standards so farmers are so in favour of RT!!

 

[Grass And Grain]

All breeding stock and AI purchases must be from RT assured farms and studs as well.
Believe they claim 96 percent of pigs produced to RT standards so farmers are so in favour of RT!!

That's a laugh isn't it, 96% are RT assured, therefore 96% of farmers LOVE RT!

Wonder if the RT assured markets and hauliers also love RT. Everyone joining voluntarily. What a nice, happy, voluntarily assured industry we have

 

[An Gof]

A fair post that is similar to a point which the NFU made when it introduced Red Tractor.

@Grass And Grain has given you an excellent response on behalf of the arable side so I will try to respond for Beef & Lamb.

Red tractor is a failure because it falls between the positions you've highlighted. It isn't a premium scheme, most of the supermarkets do have their own standards which have to be met.
Red tractor could be a low cost self certificated assurance of meeting legal requirements but they refuse that. As with arable, this is because it is controlled by the processors and buyers who have the luxury of demanding things from which they might not see any benefit but know they will not bare the cost.
If there was a proper 'market' in assurance then supermarkets would have to curtail their demands or increase premiums to secure supply. It's cheap when they can insist all produce is to a standard.
It should also be borne in mind that the NFU said the introduction of RT was essential for exports yet Christine Tacon [RT Chairman] said in a meeting this year that the reason for there being no premium for assured Lamb is that there was no requirement for the exports.

The government view RT as their future control of farmers after BPS goes and it will be obvious that we are just paying private companies for an ever increasingly expensive licence to farm.

⬆ This, in a nutshell!!

 

[Drillman]

The more I rear the content of this thread (which I started as a very serious concern) and many others that are out there the more I realise that rt have massively lost there way and let us farmers down very badly,

A terrible shame really as red tractor could have been a great ambassador for uk ag, However they have now become nothing more than a big stick which they use to extract money out of the producer for no quantifiable return.

im also aware rt etc are reading this and would invite them to give me some facts and figures to prove I’m wrong!

But am also sure they won’t because they have no reasonable defence and know we are right.

 

[Barleymow]

They never respond to Facebook comments just delete them ( they are not abusive)