Refusing to pay TB compensation

[Jdunn55]

So last week I had my tb test and had two reactors, one is a fourth calving pedigree cow and they've agreed to pay compensation for her.

Then the other was a first calved non pedigree heifer.
The night after TB testing she must have fallen over and done the splits in the yard. I found her in the morning called peakes to come and shoot her and didn't think anything of it.
Had she not been a reactor I would have had the vet out, steroids, anti-inflammatory, picked her up, shackles etc but because she was a tb animal I didn't think that was a good idea nor worth my time and effort.

Phone call from apha today and they are refusing to pay for her because I didn't inform them? As far as I'm concerned it was an animal welfare issue and I did the moral thing rather than sit on the phone to them for 2 hours?!

Is there anything I can do, it's £1,700 in compensation which is nothing to them but quite a lot to me!!

 

[Wesley]

Sorry, but can’t see you’ve got a leg to stand on personally. sh!t happens & all that stuff.

 

[Jdunn55]

Sorry, but can’t see you’ve got a leg to stand on personally. sh!t happens & all that stuff.

He's just confirmed no payment.

Feel like going to go and treat the other cow with some really long withdrawal medicine to make sure the f**kers lose money on her

 

[Martyn]

To be fair it does clearly state on the herd restriction notice that your vet should have issued to inform defra of such issues. To be honest your lucky they haven’t come down on you hard as peaks may not of carried out all the post checks needed for TB reactor removal before disposal.

 

[som farmer]

you did the right thing, from a welfare point of view, only to be clobbered by red tape.

we had a cow die, between injecting, and reading, that buggered their system up, some bright spark decided it could be anthrax............................ common sense prevailed in the end.

 

[egbert]

So last week I had my tb test and had two reactors, one is a fourth calving pedigree cow and they've agreed to pay compensation for her.

Then the other was a first calved non pedigree heifer.
The night after TB testing she must have fallen over and done the splits in the yard. I found her in the morning called peakes to come and shoot her and didn't think anything of it.
Had she not been a reactor I would have had the vet out, steroids, anti-inflammatory, picked her up, shackles etc but because she was a tb animal I didn't think that was a good idea nor worth my time and effort.

Phone call from apha today and they are refusing to pay for her because I didn't inform them? As far as I'm concerned it was an animal welfare issue and I did the moral thing rather than sit on the phone to them for 2 hours?!

Is there anything I can do, it's £1,700 in compensation which is nothing to them but quite a lot to me!!

I'm really sorry, but it was a mistake not letting them know soonest.

Look at it the other way round, guessing that this cow will have gone straight to an incinerator (and surprised a knacker firm didn't clock the green tag)...now apha have no means to do any kind of pm on her.
I realise they don't follow up most anything like they might, but they need to discourage reactors slipping of the radar.

It's an expensive lesson, but one you'll learn from.
There may be an appeal system?

 

[Enry]

I think you did the right thing at that moment, but you have broken the rules and I doubt you'll get very far with appeal. Unfortunately, put it down to experience.

 

[Jdunn55]

I did inform peakes that she was a reactor and they checked and no post mortum was needed on her so all fine that way.

Experience is an expensive lesson, unfortunately haven't got anyone who bas been there and done it so I have to learn most things off my own back which costs me money.

It will cost them money as every cow going forward will be wormed on the monday prior to tb testing on the tuesday with a nice long meat withdrawal wormer.

Yes it was my mistake, however it was a genuine mistake. If there's no room for human decency on their part I shall do my best to make them pay in other ways.

 

[Wesley]

I did inform peakes that she was a reactor and they checked and no post mortum was needed on her so all fine that way.

I’m shocked/surprised nothing was needed.

It will cost them money as every cow going forward will be wormed on the monday prior to tb testing on the tuesday with a nice long meat withdrawal wormer.

Yes it was my mistake, however it was a genuine mistake. If there's no room for human decency on their part I shall do my best to make them pay in other ways.

I understand its a lot of money to miss out on as well as the upset of losing a cow but that attitude quite frankly is childish.
I can’t imagine you expecting to be paid if a barrener you had booked in to go done the splits while on your premises.
Harsh lesson to learn but the rules are the rules.
You’ve quite possibly been lucky they’ve not gone down on you like a ton of bricks for sending an animal on without informing them!

 

[yin ewe]

I did inform peakes that she was a reactor and they checked and no post mortum was needed on her so all fine that way.

Experience is an expensive lesson, unfortunately haven't got anyone who bas been there and done it so I have to learn most things off my own back which costs me money.

It will cost them money as every cow going forward will be wormed on the monday prior to tb testing on the tuesday with a nice long meat withdrawal wormer.

Yes it was my mistake, however it was a genuine mistake. If there's no room for human decency on their part I shall do my best to make them pay in other ways.

Do you have any proof that you informed peakes that she was a reactor or just word of mouth? Some sort of paper trail might be useful for an appeal if you had it.

 

[Fergieman]

As said above had she been sold to another farmer or going to market and went down with the splits the day before it would be your loss. A simple phone call to your vet might have flagged up what needed to be done.
Take it on the chin and save the cost of any wormer or antibiotics on future cows leaving for TB.

 

[yin ewe]

PS I thought all reactors had to have a post mortem?

 

[Holsteinfriesian90]

I did inform peakes that she was a reactor and they checked and no post mortum was needed on her so all fine that way.

Experience is an expensive lesson, unfortunately haven't got anyone who bas been there and done it so I have to learn most things off my own back which costs me money.

It will cost them money as every cow going forward will be wormed on the monday prior to tb testing on the tuesday with a nice long meat withdrawal wormer.

Yes it was my mistake, however it was a genuine mistake. If there's no room for human decency on their part I shall do my best to make them pay in other ways.

Don’t do that it’s bad enough seeing them go on a lorry let alone being shot on farm with the calf kicking inside.

 

[Jdunn55]

As said above had she been sold to another farmer or going to market and went down with the splits the day before it would be your loss. A simple phone call to your vet might have flagged up what needed to be done.
Take it on the chin and save the cost of any wormer or antibiotics on future cows leaving for TB.

It wouldn't have been a loss though, she would have been lifted, shackles on, put in a straw pen, plenty of anti-inflammatory and steroids for a week or two and she would have been fine.

I just considered it cruel to do all that to her for her to be shot a week later

I'm probably just pee'd off and upset at the moment but the fact that there's absolutely no sort of care from them or any room for mistakes makes everything 10 times worse.

I'd understand completely if this was the second time I'd done this or if I had been down with tb for the past 10 years and should know all the rules but I haven't. This was my first mistake, and the first time I've gone down with tb. It would have made no difference to them but a massive difference to me.

 

[Jdunn55]

Don’t do that it’s bad enough seeing them go on a lorry let alone being shot on farm with the calf kicking inside.

Is that what happens if they're under withdrawal?

 

[Holsteinfriesian90]

Is that what happens if they're under withdrawal?

Yes. I understand your frustration the whole tb job is just sh!t.

 

[Blue.]

It will cost them money as every cow going forward will be wormed on the monday prior to tb testing on the tuesday with a nice long meat withdrawal wormer.

Everyone should do that,removing them completely from the system would be a good thing.

 

[egbert]

It wouldn't have been a loss though, she would have been lifted, shackles on, put in a straw pen, plenty of anti-inflammatory and steroids for a week or two and she would have been fine.

I just considered it cruel to do all that to her for her to be shot a week later

I'm probably just pee'd off and upset at the moment but the fact that there's absolutely no sort of care from them or any room for mistakes makes everything 10 times worse.

I'd understand completely if this was the second time I'd done this or if I had been down with tb for the past 10 years and should know all the rules but I haven't. This was my first mistake, and the first time I've gone down with tb. It would have made no difference to them but a massive difference to me.

Given you informed Peakes, I still think you might appeal.
But keep calm, don't go telling them you'll worm everything etc.
Ask MP or NFU to take it up...explain that it's gong to be a blow to your young business.




I've a tale, which while it won't salve your pain, it might bring a wry smile.
I was the kitchen of a dairy farming pal backalong.
(little ole place, all cows with names, baler cord featuring heavily in repair budget....loveliest people on gods green earth)

A knackerman came in to use their phone, and i heasrd his side of the call...evidently to aoha (or SVS as it was)

He was there to despatch and collect a reactor who'd gone down.
And was unsure what he should do, 'cos she ain't got no tags ma'am....no, none at all'.
I could very nearly hear the firebreathing head vet on the other end - who was wellknown, and had our collective respect.
'if XXX says the downer cow is Bluebell, then it's sodding well Bluebell. Get on with it.'

A different world now sadly, due to the crooked behaviour of a handful.

 

[Cowski]

Is that what happens if they're under withdrawal?

Yes, had a group of 5 heifers that were under wormer withdrawal go down on a skin test. Shot on farm, pretty miserable job. Same goes for anything close to calving.

 

[frederick]

I'm afraid you haven't and neither should you a leg to stand on

You chose to shoot the cow on welfare grounds.

If you wanted the 1700 you should have kept her alive at least until you had made a phone call to apha.

There was no urgency to shoot her on welfare grounds because you say if she wasn't a reactor you would have persevered with her.

If you had followed the rules better you may have been better off.

But if she wasn't a reactor she may still have left the farm as an in farm slaughter and you would have been better 300 pounds of vet costs worse off.

I think your also lucky they aren't throwing the book at you for the unauthorized removal of a reactor.