Regenerative Agriculture

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
In my experience Maize, a bit like fodder beet, is easy to grow but difficult to grow well. It’s about attention to detail and sticking to the rule book. If you break the rules or drop the ball the crop will punish you mercilessly!

At the end of the day maize is a Mediterranean plant being grown in a non-Mediterranean climate. Breeding and Genetics can do so much, pumping plenty of DAP into it can do a bit more, but it is what it is. Above all it needs heat units to thrive and these can be scarce in your location KP and the UK.

I know one or two where having a bash with strip till maize when I left... but I left so didn’t see the results. In theory it should work!
That was the idea behind the rip, just the legs on a toolbar spread to match the planter spacings but with no points or shoes or whathaveyou on the bottoms of the legs.
It looked extremely untidy of course, but the results were better by about 12% than the plough/PH X2 plant and roll area in the same field two years running.
It was helped by that die-back from the rip, no doubt, somewhere in between high disturbance DD and strip-tillage.

The germ was about equal but the roots were far superior.

This year I airseeded 3 paddocks of fodderbeet, about 12ha in total. The best one is in sand dunes about 30 metres from the sea!!
 

CornishTone

Member
BASIS
Location
Cornwall
That was the idea behind the rip, just the legs on a toolbar spread to match the planter spacings but with no points or shoes or whathaveyou on the bottoms of the legs.
It looked extremely untidy of course, but the results were better by about 12% than the plough/PH X2 plant and roll area in the same field two years running.
It was helped by that die-back from the rip, no doubt, somewhere in between high disturbance DD and strip-tillage.

The germ was about equal but the roots were far superior.

This year I airseeded 3 paddocks of fodderbeet, about 12ha in total. The best one is in sand dunes about 30 metres from the sea!!

How deep did the seed end up going down? Got any pics?

The fodder beet plant originated in the salt marshes of The Low Countries of Europe, so it wouldn’t surprise me that it was happiest by the sea with a bit of easy going sand under it. It loves a bit of salt!

Did you graze them or lift them?
 

Ffermer Bach

Member
Livestock Farmer
Interesting about farmers being paid for environmental benefits ( that will also benefit their own farms ultimately ), the concept of the carrot & stick, being coerced or forced to change against their will . . .

I did a week long RCS http://www.rcsaustralia.com.au/ course last week. Based on HM principles, but they really step it up a level with business principles, a great focus on soil ecology / plant growth, as well as the people involved in the business. They talk about the 3 legged pot - each leg represents people, business & production. If any are out of balance, the pot tips over.
Anyway, the course costs about $4 K, weeks accom in a motel & evening meals / drinks about another $1 K. Some people had travelled over 500km. There were 3 married couples, and 3 people who had brought their adult sons / daughters. So, a substantial financial investment, as well as a week away from the farm. It is possible to claim up to 50% back from the state govt for " training " after the course, but that is it. The point is, these people all chose to be there, made the effort to attend. NOT because they were being paid to, but because they wanted to improve their business, farms & ultimately personal satisfaction.
It was one of the best things I've ever done, such a great positive supportive group of people, great team work, interaction & future networking. I will say it is potentially life changing.
On the flip side, that is why I have not been posting on TFF much, I find it such a negative, confrontational & occasionally aggressive place, inhabited by some very blinkered negative people with very restricted paradigms not just with agriculture, but life in general. I don't need that negative sh!t. I really believe in being around positive people who will improve your life, not drag it down.

I haven't bothered doing a review of the course on TFF, don't see the point.

PS - the course attendees were all from " commercial " agriculture. Family farms, large corporate agriculture, property owners ( one bloke had 90,000 acres in Qld. Family place, he was there with his daughter & son in law to another daughter ) & also managers / station hands. None would be described as hippies or lefties or hobby farmers or not living in "the real world"
I would be interested in a review of the course
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
I can get pics of this years airseeded efforts for you (y)
Unfortunately the other experiments were on my broken phone :cry:

The beet planter put them all at the normal depth really, apart from where a lump of turf jumped the planter unit out of the "furrow" it really was business as normal, quite a bit of tilth as you'd expect going into 120 year old pasture :love: and of course the tap root just galloped down the rip... no fert, 35TDM per hectare.

edit to add: all grazed, beet lifters need suspended from balloons down here!!
 
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holwellcourtfarm

Member
Livestock Farmer
In collecting the drill in few weeks, an old IH 511. This season I have an acre of old wild bird mix sprayed off to dd it intro to test the dd idea.

Next year I plan to add plough discs in front of the coulters (after removing all but 6) with a cheap atv sprayer used to band spray in front of the rows. Ideally I'd use Paraquat or Diquat to just kill off the top but both are banned here now. I don't want to kill the pasture root mat, just to give the maize seedlings a fighting chance.

It'll be an interesting project. My Agronomist is on board.
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
In collecting the drill in few weeks, an old IH 511. This season I have an acre of old wild bird mix sprayed off to dd it intro to test the dd idea.

Next year I plan to add plough discs in front of the coulters (after removing all but 6) with a cheap atv sprayer used to band spray in front of the rows. Ideally I'd use Paraquat or Diquat to just kill off the top but both are banned here now. I don't want to kill the pasture root mat, just to give the maize seedlings a fighting chance.

It'll be an interesting project. My Agronomist is on board.
Would be interesting to see how you are going to construct a set of "row cleaners" for her, those 511s are bloody good drills (y)

You will have noticed the spiked wheels on @cows sh#t me to tears flash drill, that could possibly be a future alternative to the sprayer if you could get enough downpressure on them, or scalloped discs maybe... thinking out loud sorry!!
 

CornishTone

Member
BASIS
Location
Cornwall
In collecting the drill in few weeks, an old IH 511. This season I have an acre of old wild bird mix sprayed off to dd it intro to test the dd idea.

Next year I plan to add plough discs in front of the coulters (after removing all but 6) with a cheap atv sprayer used to band spray in front of the rows. Ideally I'd use Paraquat or Diquat to just kill off the top but both are banned here now. I don't want to kill the pasture root mat, just to give the maize seedlings a fighting chance.

It'll be an interesting project. My Agronomist is on board.

When did they ban Diquat? Must be recently as it was still in use when I left.
 

Great In Grass

Member
Location
Cornwall.
The undersowing experiment on last years maize is starting to look like it was a good idea (y)

Now I ned to work out a cheap practical way to get clover, chicory etc established in it as well. Any ideas @Great In Grass ?
Chicory like clover only needs to be sown at a very shallow depth (1cm). if DD is not an option perhaps create a light tilth and broadcast into it?

BLW if any need to be controlled firstly, we have a nice little mix containing Plantain,Red/White Clover and Chicory.;)
 

holwellcourtfarm

Member
Livestock Farmer
According to Rothamstead we're all wasting our time!

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/02/180228134114.htm
So what can we conclude from the long‐term experiments (Poulton et al, 2018) at Rothamsted Research Institute in their research plots? If you plough and plant monocrops in various soil types over long periods of time, and don’t do anything to improve the diversity of the soil microbiology, except apply manure, you will not capture enough carbon to meet the 4 per 1000 Paris accord goal for carbon sequestration. What you can’t deduced from any of this research is whether or not using methods to improve soil microbiology (like using diverse plant covers, not tilling, reducing chemical inputs and integrating properly managed livestock) will enhance carbon capture.

https://lachefnet.wordpress.com/2018/03/25/its-the-soil-biology-stupid/
 
I came across this in a tractorhouse magazine. Add seems to say it's used to knock stubble down. Looks like a nice crimper roller to me. I've got plans to build one for under my drill.(y)
IMG_20180326_180105050.jpg
 

hendrebc

Member
Livestock Farmer
I know little about arable farming but... that looks good as a crimper roller for killing cover crops which im assuming you will do with it @T Bourne ?
Anyway my question is why would you need to crunch stubble up? Would it matter if it was still stood upright surely it would rot down or just fall over by itself? Ive seen pictures of people drilling straight into standing stubble before ad they looked to be doing fine amd weret worried about it being upright
 
I know little about arable farming but... that looks good as a crimper roller for killing cover crops which im assuming you will do with it @T Bourne ?
Anyway my question is why would you need to crunch stubble up? Would it matter if it was still stood upright surely it would rot down or just fall over by itself? Ive seen pictures of people drilling straight into standing stubble before ad they looked to be doing fine amd weret worried about it being upright
Yes I will be killing cover crops with one. I don't get the stubble crunching either. It would make for better ground cover if it was layed on the ground but it wouldn't last as long, it would also hamper drilling more if it was layed down. Any thoughts @Farmer Roy @CornishTone @TelesnaAg @Clive @SilliamWhale @Simon Chiles @Simon C ? Wow! I've never tagged so many before!:p
 

Farmer Roy

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
NSW, Newstralya
Err, " stubble crunchers " were popular here especially for smashing up canola stubble prior to planting wheat or similar narrow row spacing crops. In the right conditions ( hot, dry, brittle stubble ) they broke the stubble into short lengths and allowed " conventional " planting equipment to plant into the stubble without too many problems.

Standing stubble. DEFINITELY easier to plant into standing stubble as opposed to stubble flat on the ground. Standing stubble does provide reasonable ground cover, shelter from winds & evaporation & also allows pathways for rain to infiltrate the soil, but from a soil biology point of view, doesn't add much apart from the physical benefits listed above. All of that standing plant material eventually just oxidises, rather than adding much carbon to the soil. By knocking stubble flat, in contact with the soil & causing some physical damage to the stubble allowing easier access for the microbes & moisture, it does speed up the decomposition process & add to the carbon flow.
The cover breaking down quickly probably isn't an issue depending on the frequency of your planting / Cropping rotation, as you will be growing more cover

Yes, flat stubble creates more issues with planting, but not insurmountable.

Hope I've answered ?

Oh yes, stubble crunchers are also good on crops like sunflowers, which leave very long, tough stalks which are a bit of a nightmare
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

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Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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