Reliable CHP unit?

[A1an]

Is there such a thing?

 

[f0ster]

depends on what type of fuel you want to use.

 

[A1an]

Woodchip, flexible with chip size/moisture

 

[renewablejohn]

Woodchip, flexible with chip size/moisture

Thermal oil boiler and thermal oil steam evaporator running conventional steam turbines. Avoid any form of gasification plant as it will not handle variable chip size or moisture content.

 

[A1an]

sorry, the BOILER doesn't need to be flexible with chip, we are. We can produce most sizes of chip with whatever MC required.

 

[renewablejohn]

sorry, the BOILER doesn't need to be flexible with chip, we are. We can produce most sizes of chip with whatever MC required.

I dont think you really mean that or if you do you dont understand the implications for a typical gasification type chp to avoid tar in the system. Chip size between 20mm and 50mm with no fines and maximum moisture content of 12% even then if the timber has a high resin content it will clog up the chp plant. So you then end up with loads of less than 20mm fines which if its less than 12% MC can be turned into briquettes and then used in the chp plant but thats even more work.

 

[A1an]

I dont think you really mean that or if you do you dont understand the implications for a typical gasification type chp to avoid tar in the system. Chip size between 20mm and 50mm with no fines and maximum moisture content of 12% even then if the timber has a high resin content it will clog up the chp plant. So you then end up with loads of less than 20mm fines which if its less than 12% MC can be turned into briquettes and then used in the chp plant but thats even more work.

We can screen to whatever size we need, timber is all sitka, air dried for 6-8mnth prior to being dried. I am confident we can make whatever the boiler requires, just be interested in one that is reliable when the fuel is reliable.

 

[f0ster]

the wood chip chp plants are very high maintenance, froling have made great strides with theirs but you are still looking at a major service every four months.

 

[rollestonpark]

Hi A1an,

Have sent you a PM.

I've been running the Froling unit for over 2 years and is working well.
However, these CHPs require quite a lot of work and commitment.
You need to be prepared to get your hands dirty (pretty often), be technically minded.

If you don't mind that and you can make the payments etc stack up, it could be for you.

Check your PMs

Chris

 

[555]

Have you looked at ORC units? What water temp can you achieve??

 

[A1an]

Hi A1an,

Have sent you a PM.

I've been running the Froling unit for over 2 years and is working well.
However, these CHPs require quite a lot of work and commitment.
You need to be prepared to get your hands dirty (pretty often), be technically minded.

If you don't mind that and you can make the payments etc stack up, it could be for you.

Check your PMs

Chris

Many thanks for the PM Chris, Ive actually been to look at a froling unit at a demo day but it was broken down at the time! I don't mind getting my hands dirty and can find my way round a toolbox or HMI.
If we do decide to go down this route I may be in touch.

 

[rollestonpark]

Yeah no worries.
I think main thing is to do calculations on investment vs payments etc. Main thing to keep in mind I think is that these CHP Froling units do about 7500 hours a year (of actual generating). That's if you don't get anything major happen and your on to it fairly rapidly when it stops and your quick with your service time. I think last year I managed 7959 hours of generation. But I wouldn't budget for that every year.

You would also have to carry a fair few parts to get 7500 hours, as waiting for parts will cost you dear in runtime.
For me it consumes about 6 cu of 5% to 10% moisture wood chip per day. That's assuming you've already removed most of the fines and your using bark free softwood.

It doesn't mind bark, but this is waste as far as the CHP is concerned and will be treated as such.

Chris

 

[rogeriko]

I would go with the Volter units from Finland. With all the new modifications they just seem to run non-stop for days/weeks on end with gasifier overhauls only every 6 months now.

 

[scotston]

I would echo everything Chris said for my spanner. But then I think the froling is based on a spanner anyway so reckon you won't go wrong with either.

 

[renewablejohn]

I would go with the Volter units from Finland. With all the new modifications they just seem to run non-stop for days/weeks on end with gasifier overhauls only every 6 months now.

Really. And you classify a gasifier overhaul every 6 months as "reliable". Sorry but if you want reliable than I still think anything to do with gasifier plant still needs to be avoided.

 

[rogeriko]

By overhaul I meant cleanout. The new thicker stainless components seem to be lasting at least 12 months with many running 18 months or more. Anything running at 1100 degrees is going to need replacing at sometime. They are a hundred times better now than when they first came to market. The best thing about the Volter units is there is no tar. They burn completely clean.